Mitchel Reel Musem - Mitchel Mates Discussion Group

Mitchell Reel Museum Discussion Group

If you are looking to collect, buy, repair, service, learn, ask questions or go fishing with a vintage Mitchell Fishing Reel, you are at the right place! We are just Mitchell Reel collectors and enthusiast who enjoy an open discussion forum on "vintage" Mitchell Fishing Reels. Please Click Here to learn how to make a post and ask about Mitchell reel service or repairs, get advice on buying or collecting, or any other question in this free public forum.

"Click Here to Find Vintage Mitchell Reels For Sale Worldwide"

It is currently Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:50 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




  Page 1 of 1   [ 19 posts ]
New Topic Add Reply
Author Message
 Offline
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:40 pm • #  
User avatar
Sr. Member

Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:28 pm
Posts: 1251
Location: Virginia
Hello Mates,

I just picked up a couple of Mitchell reel parts that many Mates may have never seen before - I know that I haven't. The first is an "Odd" Garcia Mitchell 300C faceplate. For this part of the post, I'll only show a NIP GM 300C faceplate, Part # 81886 which is correct for the GM 300C faceplate. When I purchased this part I noticed some initial oddities (which is why I got it) but I had no idea how odd. See if you can tell.
Attachment:
300C Sideplate.jpg

Attachment:
300C Sideplate 1.jpg

Attachment:
300C Sideplate 2.jpg

Good luck :tup .

Regards,
Chris


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Top
  
 
 Offline
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:08 pm • #  
User avatar
Sr. Member

Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:28 pm
Posts: 1251
Location: Virginia
Hi Mates,

So this is how odd this part really is. Again, it's NIP, Part# 81886 for a Garcia Mitchell 300C.
Attachment:
300C Sideplate Edited.jpg

Note the 2nd/3rd Version 300C engraving (actually stamped but that comes in later), The 1st Version A/R Lever (wider) and lack of A/R Lever stops (posts). The 1st Version GM 300C "engraving" was smaller with dashes between the 3-0-0 C. Also note the location of the A/R Dog post: This is a 1st Version sideplate.

Attachment:
300C Sideplate Edited 1.jpg

Note the location of the A/R Dog post - the A/R lever remains in the same position as you're looking at the back of the faceplate. If this was a 300C faceplate the A/R Dog post would be in the upper casting mark: This is a 1st Version 301C sideplate!

Attachment:
300C Sideplate Edited 2.jpg

This faceplate has been double stamped. You can clearly see the lower original light stamp (for positioning) and then the permanent stamp slightly higher than the mis-stamp. Mitchell stopped engraving faceplates in the late 50s and stamped them thereafter - faster and more efficient. If you look closely, you can see the difference between engraving and stamping, although I don't know exactly when this change occurred. I have several Mitchells that are "double stamped"

I hope you find this one interesting - A while ago I posted a Garcia Mitchell 330 which has a 331 faceplate on it even though it says Garcia Mitchell 3-3-0. It won't work with the A/R engaged :sFun_bricks: but is perfect with the A/R disengaged.

As always, questions and comments are always welcome.

Regards,
Chris


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Top
  
 
 Offline
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:17 pm • #  
User avatar
Sr. Member

Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:28 pm
Posts: 1251
Location: Virginia
Hi Mates,

Here's a RARE one. I recently received this and it's the only one I've ever seen - which wasn't on a Mitchell reel. Even though it didn't come with the original packaging, It's perfect and unmistakable.
Attachment:
Otomatic Bail Assy.jpg

Attachment:
Otomatic Bail Assy 1.jpg

Attachment:
Otomatic Bail Assy 2.jpg

The chrome is perfect and obviously NOS as there isn't a scratch on it...……

Any guesses what it went to? :sHa_biggrin:

Regards,
Chris


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Top
  
 
 Offline
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:31 pm • #  
User avatar
Global Moderator

Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:00 pm
Posts: 1398
Location: West Virginia, USA
Chris,
Thanks for posting these items, and telling us what you know about them. I've been occupied a lot lately with some other things, so this will keep my mine on new things for a while.
Regards,
Ted Lanham


Top
  
 
 Offline
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:34 pm • #  
User avatar
Sr. Member

Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 12:18 am
Posts: 722
Location: Portland, OR
Chris, the line guide screw isn’t chromed. A custom tournament Match reel? Just a guess..

Sandman


Top
  
 
 Offline
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:15 am • #  
User avatar
Full Member

Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:45 am
Posts: 30
Hi Chris,

That is an interesting side plate, and I have only seen the 300C with the new large lettering and the older wide lever on a couple of occasions. I have definitely not seen a 301C plate over stamped in this way.

I have attached a picture of one of these reels from my collection, serial number 9408021 and believe it to be a transition reel, as the factory moved over from the small lettering with wide lever to the large lettering with narrow lever. I have been slowly finding these transition reels across most of the 300 series family, but all of the other models have old lettering with the new lever, so the 300C is somewhat of an outlier being the other way around.

I now have examples of these transition side plates from nine different models, but the wide lever, large lettering 301C still eludes me...

As for the bail wire, that looks like a first or second version Otomatic bail wire to me. If so, it is extremely unusual and there cannot be too many spares of that around.

Congratulations on some splendid finds!

George


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Top
  
 
 Offline
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:20 am • #  
User avatar
Sr. Member

Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:20 pm
Posts: 352
Location: Michigan
Chris,
Regarding the GM 300C cover plate, what a truly remarkable find! This part had me turning my head upside down and back trying to figure out how it was supposed to go on a reel.
:sCo_hmmthink:

Some observations/questions:

- Did Mitchell 301 reels have their name and model numbers upside down until around 1957 (5th Version)?
- The GM 300C cover shown, if mounted on a LH reel frame would have it's name and model number upside down as well, wouldn't it? Interesting. :eek
- I believe Wallace said that the 300C first version dates back to around 1968 but do 300C serial numbers conform to 300 serial numbers as far as the dating guide?
- Placement of the anti-reverse dog pin is definitely, as you said, where a LH cover pin would be located. Note the two raised circles formed into the casting. I wonder if these were designed to give more reinforcement or support to the A/R dog pin?
- The part number on the package is 81886 (left-hand wind) as you mention, and would be 81887 (for right-hand wind). Was somebody asleep at the factory or perhaps a liquid lunch. ;)
- I can see that this cover was definitely made for a reel equipped with bearings on the drive shaft, I wonder what other Mitchell reel models, that had bearings on the drive shaft and rotating head, looked like?
- I did not know that cover plates were no longer engraved after the late 1950's and changed to stamping. Thank you for pointing this out.

A fascinating post I truly enjoyed. :sSig_nicethread:

By the way, I do not believe I have ever seen a LH GM 301 reel. Would you happen to have one in your collection you could post a photo of for reference?

Thanks again
Kind Regards,
Bill :tup


Top
  
 
 Offline
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:22 am • #  
User avatar
Sr. Member

Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 12:18 am
Posts: 722
Location: Portland, OR
Chris, another guess on the bail wire. A very early Otomatic (330)..

Sandman


Top
  
 
 Offline
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:19 pm • #  
User avatar
Sr. Member

Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:28 pm
Posts: 1251
Location: Virginia
Well, Mates. I just spent the last hour and a half responding only to have it go away before posting - somewhere, but irretrievable. :sAng_banghead2: :sAng_banghead2: :sAng_banghead2: :sAng_banghead2: :sAng_banghead2: :sAng_banghead2: :sAng_banghead2: :sAng_banghead2: :sAng_banghead2: :sAng_banghead2: :sAng_banghead2: :sAng_banghead2: :sAng_banghead2: :sAng_banghead2: :sAng_banghead2: :sAng_banghead2: :sAng_banghead2: .

I'll try again later........I need a Beer!

Regards,
Chris


Top
  
 
 Offline
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:13 pm • #  
User avatar
Sr. Member

Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 12:18 am
Posts: 722
Location: Portland, OR
Hate it when that happens...select all and copy, often...beer helps...your keeping us in suspense...

Sandman


Top
  
 
 Offline
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:54 pm • #  
User avatar
Sr. Member

Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2015 4:01 pm
Posts: 255
Location: USA
Hi Chris, If I were you I'd drink that beer quick before it disappears also. :sCh_fisherman: John in Pa.


Top
  
 
 Offline
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:42 pm • #  
User avatar
Sr. Member

Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:28 pm
Posts: 1251
Location: Virginia
:sCh_taz: Hi Again Mates,

I'll give this another try.
Ted, Hope this is a small distraction from any problems but you know that you can email - PM me at any time.

Thank you Mates for all for the questions, comments and observations.
First, George and Sandman win the "Guess". That is a 1st / 2nd Version Otomatic Bail. As George said, an exceptionally rare piece in NOS - Just wish I had the original packaging....But I'm good with having the part :sFun_bananacolors:.
George, A fantastic reel in the transition from the 1st /2nd Version 300C! I had never seen this before and that's why I got this particular faceplate - I hadn't seen nor realized a complete reel before - Thank you for sharing :tup . Mates, When I got this faceplate, I thought it was the same rarity that George shared, I had no idea that it was actually a 301C and a double stamp with the wrong 300C "engraving" . This thing is special. I do have other Mitchells that are "double stamped" and a 330 that actually has a 331 faceplate - posted earlier.... George, Interestingly, I have a 2nd Version GM 301C, NIB in #s Matching Box, # 9260651 with the large lettering and the narrow A/R (more on this later Bill) lever? Earlier than your transition 300C # 9408021 :sCo_hmmthink: .

Bill, You ask some very interesting questions and make very astute observations...Please allow me to give them my best opinion tomorrow.

Kind Regards,
Chris


Top
  
 
 Offline
PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:43 pm • #  
User avatar
Full Member

Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:45 am
Posts: 30
Hi Chris,

I have been meaning to circle back on this topic and thank everyone who assisted in bringing the site back.

Bill asked:

- I can see that this cover was definitely made for a reel equipped with bearings on the drive shaft, I wonder what other Mitchell reel models, that had bearings on the drive shaft and rotating head, looked like?

Here are a 410 and 440 with the wide a/r lever from the mid 1960’s, manufactured a couple of years before the 300C was introduced.

Attachment:
410 6228172 .25.JPG
Attachment:
440 5453479 .25.JPG


Externally, the main difference on the side plate, as Chris points out on the 300C below, is "there are the lack of A/R lever stops (posts)”.

Attachment:
300C 9408021 .25.JPG


I have been studying the introduction of the A/R lever stops (posts), and have untangled some of it, but by no means all. As a small tangent, in correspondence with Christian, he used the wonderfully evocative terms “avec blocage”, and “sans blocage” to describe those side plates with and without “A/R lever stops (posts)”. I think that this is such an economical way to describe this feature, that I vote that we should henceforth adopt it!

The early production of the 330, 350, 351, 400 and 401 models all used some version of the wide A/R lever, and all of these models were initially made with their sideplates sans blocage. The posts were then included on sideplates for the 350 and 400 models, by serial numbers in the 4800000’s.

However, the lowest serial number that I have found for a 300C is 7386622, with others between 7500000 and 7700000. So, the 300C was introduced with the wide lever, sans blocage, with serial numbers over 2 1/2 million higher than when the blocage had been added to the side plates of the high speed reels.

However all the wide lever versions that I have found, both Euro and Garcia, for the 330 model are sans blocage. Also the 300 with the chevron a/r lever was also sans blocage until the 8000000 serial numbers, when the chevron lever was changed to the narrow lever.

It seems to me that the conclusion to draw is that side plates for the slower retrieve models were sans blocage, until the introduction of the narrow a/r lever, even though this change had been made for all of the high speed models long before this. This would then explain why the 300C’s were introduced sans blocage in 68/69.

Now, the serial numbers where the change to the narrow lever, and blocage across all of the other 300 series models, is concentrated around the beginning of the 8000000's, so this does not explain why we are finding these 300C’s with large lettering, wide lever, sans blocage, with serial numbers in the 9400000’s. Note: the large lettering, wide lever 300C shown above is serial number 9408021.

From my interpretation, I think that manufacturing and inventory might have something to do with all of this. The production data that Bernard Caminade published in Le Grand Livre Des Moulinets Francais, shows that Mitchell must have had high confidence in the sales potential for the launch of the 300C model, as they manufactured 57,928 model 300C and 6,075 model 301C in 1969. At that time, this was the highest first year production volume for any of the 300 series models.

But sales might have been slower than projected, as, in 1970, only 691 model 300C and 1,850 model 301C were made. Then, in 1971, production ramped back up, and 46,992 model 300C and 5,605 model 301C were made.

By 1970, the narrow lever had been rolled out across all the other 300 series models, as had the large lettering. However, what would Mitchell do if they still had stock left over of wide lever, sans blocage, roller bearing side plates that had not been used up in the initial manufacturing?

Clearly, after a 12 month hiatus, demand drove up the manufacturing quantities again in 1971, so I think a simple explanation is that there were some wide lever side plates left over from 1969, that were then stamped with large lettering and used up first, before being replaced with the new narrow lever, avec blocage versions.

One (or more) left hand side plates might have been mis-stamped 300C, instead of 301C, or they may simply have decided to stamp all the remaining plates as 300C, but that is simply speculation. I have not yet found a complete 301C with the large lettering, wide lever, but would not rule out that there may be out there.

I too have found a large lettering, narrow lever 301C, with its serial number earlier than my large lettering, wide lever 300C. Mine is number 9238557, manufactured, I guess, within a week or so of when Chris's was made, as the monthly production of 300 series reels was around 100,000 at that time.

This is interesting, but I don't think it is terribly significant, as it would not be the first time that Mitchell introduced a new feature for the right hand model with serial numbers in advance of the left hand model.

George


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Top
  
 
 Offline
PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 5:23 pm • #  
User avatar
Sr. Member

Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:20 pm
Posts: 352
Location: Michigan
Mates,
I made a typo on my former post regarding this topic! :sAng_scream:
I wrote:
GreatLaker wrote:
By the way, I do not believe I have ever seen a LH GM 301 reel. Would you happen to have one in your collection you could post a photo of for reference?

What I should have written is: "Chris, I do not believe I have ever seen a right-hand-wind GM 301C reel. Would you happen to have one in your collection you could post a photo of for reference?" :blush

I should have remembered how confusing it can be to refer to right-hand-wind (Left Handed) reels by simply typing "LH" or "Left Hand" reels instead of typing right-hand-wind, sorry.

Also, instead of writing drive shaft I should have written drive gear shaft. My apologies again. :sAng_banghead2:

Kind Regards,
Bill :tup


Last edited by GreatLaker on Thu Dec 19, 2019 5:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
  
 
 Offline
PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 5:39 pm • #  
User avatar
Sr. Member

Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:20 pm
Posts: 352
Location: Michigan
George,

Regarding my former question:
GreatLaker wrote:
- I can see that this cover was definitely made for a reel equipped with bearings on the drive shaft, I wonder what other Mitchell reel models, that had bearings on the drive shaft and rotating head, looked like?

This question was unclear and I should have written: "I can see that this cover was definitely made for a reel equipped with bearings on the drive gear shaft. I wonder what other Mitchell right-hand-wind reel models, that had bearings on the drive gear shaft and rotating head, looked like?"

Sorry for the confusion. :sEm_oops:

Kind Regards,
Bill :tup


Top
  
 
 Offline
PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:52 pm • #  
User avatar
Full Member

Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:45 am
Posts: 30
Hi Bill,

Here are the three versions of the Garcia Mitchell 301C that I have found:

First version, small lettering, sans blocage, serial number 7792672
Attachment:
301c 7792672 .25.JPG


Second version, large lettering, avec blocage, serial number 9238577
Attachment:
301C 9238577 .25.JPG


Third version, large lettering, revised bail assembly with roller line guide, serial number B921493
Attachment:
301C B921493 .25.JPG


The only other right hand wind roller bearing model that was manufactured at the same time as the launch of the 301C was the 411. The 441 did not launch until 1970. Both of these reels were the mirror image of the left hand wind versions that I showed in my earlier post, but I can photograph the right hand models tomorrow if you would like to see them.

Hope this helps!

George


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Top
  
 
 Offline
PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 5:15 pm • #  
User avatar
Sr. Member

Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:28 pm
Posts: 1251
Location: Virginia
Hi Mates,

George, A fantastic write up/photos :tup . Thank you for sharing such great information and observations. I don't know about the other Mates, but I certainly learned a lot! Great questions and superb answers.

Reviewing my 300Cs and 301Cs, they fall completely in line with your assessments. Thanks again!

Kind Regards,
Chris


Top
  
 
 Offline
PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:17 am • #  
User avatar
Full Member

Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:45 am
Posts: 30
Thanks Chris, I appreciate the feedback!

Merry Christmas to all,

George


Top
  
 
 Offline
PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:23 pm • #  
User avatar
Sr. Member

Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:20 pm
Posts: 352
Location: Michigan
Chris and George,
Please accept my apologizes for my earlier response made on Friday, October 25, 2019 at 1:20 am. I was half asleep. Every time I see what I wrote it really bugs me so please see below a corrected version of what I was actually trying to say.

- Did Mitchell 301C reels have their name and model numbers upside down like other Mitchell 301 reels?
- The cover shown, if mounted on a GM 301C (right-hand-wind) reel frame, might work, but, would have its name and model number upside down wouldn't it? Interesting. :eek
- Wallace Carney wrote in his book: ”The Mitchell Classic 300 Spinning Reel” on page 156, that: “This first release 300C with serial number 7469840 dates this reel 1968.” But, do 301C serial numbers conform to 300C serial numbers as far as the dating guide? (Note that in Wallace’s: “Mitchell Fishing Reel Dating Guide”, he indicates that serial number 7469840 dates to the year1967.)
- Placement of the anti-reverse dog pin is definitely, as Chris said, located where a 301C cover pin would be located on this one. I also noted the two raised circles formed into the casting. I wonder if these were designed to give more reinforcement or support to the A/R dog pin.
- The part number shown on the package is 81886 which designates a 300C (left-hand wind) as you mention, and would be 81887 for a 301C (right-hand wind). Given what was made makes me wonder was somebody asleep at the factory or perhaps a liquid lunch? ;)
- I can see that this cover was definitely made for a reel equipped with bearings on the drive gear shaft; I wonder what other Mitchell right-hand-wind reel models, which had bearings on the drive gear shaft and rotating head, looked like? Were their cover plates labeled upside down?
- I did not know that cover plates were no longer engraved after the late 1950's and changed to stamping. Thank you for pointing this out.

A fascinating post I truly enjoyed.

Chris, I do not believe I have ever seen a GM 301C (right-hand-wind) reel. Would you happen to have one in your collection you could post a photo of for reference?

Thanks again
Kind Regards,
Bill


Thanks for your indulgence. :blush
Kind Regards,
Bill


Top
  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  

  Page 1 of 1   [ 19 posts ]
New Topic Add Reply

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 37 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
[ Time : 0.077s | 14 Queries | GZIP : Off ]