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 Post subject: 810 bail roller question
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 5:14 pm • #  
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After spooling up my 1978 810 with 10lb Berkeley mono, I noticed that a considerable amount of twist had been imparted to the line.

Inspection of the roller showed it was pretty much seized, so it was stripped out, cleaned and relubed then reassembled. The roller is reversible and can be inserted either way, but - and here's the thing - it appears to have a brass bush inserted at one end, so one would assume that there's a right and wrong way to fit it.

In addition, with the roller in place and fully tightened there appears to be a considerable amount of lateral play, over a millimetre - maybe as much as 2mm. Is this normal? It's the same irrespective of which way round it's fitted.

A chat with a Mitchell expert on another forum didn't shed any light on this, since the roller in his own 810 (from the same year) didn't have a bush fitted, and it was something he'd not come across previously despite working on dozens - maybe hundreds - of 300 sized Mitchells.

Another anomaly that came to light was the inclusion of a gasket on both our reels, something that's not shown on your schematic for the 810. Are these reels a transitional model between the 810 and 810A, perhaps?

The s/n is H 345112, if that helps.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 8:57 am • #  
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Hello Robtherake,

Welcome to the group! I am not familiar with the brush added to the roller guide. My guess someone added it to possibly remove the 1-2 mm play in the roller guide. If the reel was used alot the play could be there from just heavy use. Since your reel might not all be complete you could add a small brass washer to reduce the amount of play in the roller guide. As for the gasket, yes there is a transition period most likley. There is also a chance that it was either never there or was removed. Hope this helps. Cheers! PS photographs always help.

Regards, Scott


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:32 am • #  
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About the possibility of a transition reel, yes that is always possible.
But what also happened is that when reels were send in for repair they would install (when possible) the "latest/newer version" parts. I know they did this at Arca in Belgium, you could consider this to be an upgrade to a reel. Ofcourse, so many years later these things can cause a lot of confusion for collectors...
Jean-Paul


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 8:19 pm • #  
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Thanks, Gents.

With respect to the gasket. The guy who owns the other (gasket-wearing) 810 reassembled the reel without it and found it wouldn't turn. Shimming the reel (still without the gasket) didn't help either - the gasket is obviously needed for the reel to function correctly and so one would assume it's a genuinely original component and not an add-on aftermarket upgrade.

Close inspection of the bush fitted to the roller indicates a high degree of accuracy/precision, so it was either inserted by a seriously talented amateur or again is a factory part. In addition, it fits flush in the end of the roller so does not extend its length in any way.

I'll try to take a picture of the bushed roller, although I'm not sure whether my creaky old sony DSLR can do macro on such small objects - not in my clumsy hands, anyway!


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:10 pm • #  
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When Mitchell went to multi-piece bails, there seemed to be two styles.

One required a bushing, the other had a bail with a built in bail roller post. On both, the intent was that the bail arm would be tightly attached to the bail wire without jamming the roller...so the bushing/post should be longer than the roller.

Very late multi-piece bails had both a post on the bail, and a Teflon bushing for the roller. You can easily identify these due to a nut securing the bail to the bail arm, instead of a screw.

I'll have to take a quick look at the schematics.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:21 pm • #  
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From what I can tell, the 810 had a specific bail...one piece, P/N 82393, ahich used roller/screw, P/N's 82005 and 82006.

This roller and screw combination was on all types of late 308's and early 300A reels one piece bails...and misc 4xx reels.

I'm unsure what made the 810 bail unique.

This roller and screw combination did allow side to side motion and should be nearly impossible to jam with pressure, though it could get gunked up.

Just replacing the screw and roller should correct things if simple cleaning and lubing doesn't work.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:14 pm • #  
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So the play is actually built-in as a feature of that particular set up. I fancied that it was so, but it's pleasing to have it confirmed.

Freed and relubed, the roller now spins like a good un and a fresh fill of line went on without any problems.

Many thanks for your help, Smead; I'm indebted.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:05 pm • #  
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Your most welcome!!

You'll always see line twist with spinning reels, even today's modern variety.

I get it a lot just working on reels and loading from one spool to another, usually just flipping the spool the line is coming off of is enough to eliminate that.

When fishing, the use of a swivel is the best tactic...an there are some available that are very small.

If using a swivel is not an option, every so often toss a heavyish hookless spoon to get a lot of line off the spool, then reel back slowly so the line can untwist...I like Acme Kastmasters for this.

This is the shore/kayak/rowboat equivalent of trolling a bare line behind a boat.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:02 pm • #  
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Smead wrote:
Your most welcome!!

You'll always see line twist with spinning reels, even today's modern variety.

I get it a lot just working on reels and loading from one spool to another, usually just flipping the spool the line is coming off of is enough to eliminate that.

When fishing, the use of a swivel is the best tactic...an there are some available that are very small.

If using a swivel is not an option, every so often toss a heavyish hookless spoon to get a lot of line off the spool, then reel back slowly so the line can untwist...I like Acme Kastmasters for this.

This is the shore/kayak/rowboat equivalent of trolling a bare line behind a boat.


I'm usually pretty careful at getting the line off the right side of the spool, Smead, but I guess no-one's perfect - least of all me!

I have a Gardner Spin Doctor lead for shedding line twist; it works like a charm and it only takes a couple of casts. This was so twisted, though, that a couple of small knots had formed so I just binned the lot.

A wise gentleman offered me a great tip for getting rid of twist - if you're on a river, just pay out your bare line into the flow, let it spin in the current for a few minutes and then reel it back it and voila! Line twist is history. I guess it works in the same way as paying line out behind a boat.


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