Mitchel Reel Musem - Mitchel Mates Discussion Group

Mitchell Reel Museum Discussion Group

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:38 pm • #  
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Hoping somebody can help me replace the pinion/bearing I have it all apart I tried pushing it out and I tried turning it out but it wont budge. Thanks Ed


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:20 pm • #  
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Hello brook trout, First let me say welcome to the Mitchell Reel Museum. It's hard to give an answer because I don't know if you mean the bearing is stuck in the reel body or the rotor. It would help to have a little more information. Regards, John in Pa.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:09 pm • #  
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Its stuck in the rotor, I did remove the nut, I thought that would leave the pinion/bearing fall out but it didnt


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:11 pm • #  
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Hello brook trout, If you look in the forum under Mitchell reel talk, page7, about half way down you should get enough info to be able to get your bearing unstuck, best of luck . Regards , John in Pa.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:54 pm • #  
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If you can't locate the procedure on this site, below is the best method to remove a stuck pinion gear, I've found:

1) Keep crank handle on reel
2) Place anti-reverse in free position (anti-reverse in “off” position)
3) Take back cover plate off
4) Remove axle keeper from oscillation block
5) Remove axle
6) Remove axle hex nut
7) Remove pinion set screw
8) Pull rotor off of housing with pinion still attached
9) Apply penetrating oil to pinion threads at top and bottom of rotor, let soak overnight (steps 8 and 9 may not be needed, I usually try without first)
10) Re-attach rotor to housing
11) Leave hex nut and pinion set screw off
12) Insert axle, with Planamatic parts and oscillation block
13) Use a bit of rag or bit of wood (as a last resort sometimes I have to use a small piece of copper which is softer than the aluminum gearing so it won’t damage the gears) to jam pinion gear and main gear
14) Rotor should unscrew easily (clockwise)


Sandman


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:00 pm • #  
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Thanks John I'm afraid I have to start all over, guess I should have taken it apart before I ordered the part, the part list I got off the internet listed the part #82424 its a pinion/gear assy. but its not the right one, the only thing I can find on the reel to identify it is a ser.# on the bottom of the reel foot the # is
758640 but that don't mean anything to me, but thanks for your help. Ed


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:35 pm • #  
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Ed, your 308 is a 1968 production year...the schematics for 1968 show the pinion gear assembly part number as #81303...the pinion gear part # changed to #82424 in 1976...it seems like the same assembly, so not sure why the #82424 wont work on your reel, unless they sold you a different part...

Sandman


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:06 pm • #  
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Thanks a lot for the great into Sandman that's the part number I ordered 82424 it was listed as new but, I did receive it in a plastic sandwich baggie.
The one I took out looked exactly like the picture of 81303 however the one I received looks like 82424 which had a hex nut on it, not the one that holds it into the rotating housing, the original one had what I would describe as a spacer I'm guessing maybe 1/8" thick.
The new one fits in but it makes a wining sound, the original one was quiet but when I rotated the handle I could feel a bump where one of the bearing was worn or missing.
Not sure what I'm going to do now. but thanks for the great info.
Could I ask you how you found out the date of my reel from the serial No. I have a couple other reels I would like to know the date of manufacture, guess I'm a fanatic 2 -308 2-408 and I think 3-300 again thanks for the info. Ed


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:48 pm • #  
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Ed, the newer style pinion gear has the hex nut fixed to the gear assembly (82424 - about 1975). The previous version (81303) did not have this hex nut, but rather a knurled adjustable nut and spacer. I suspect Mitchell considered the 82424 design an improvement since the hex nut came preadjusted and was fixed (it also took the factory human adjustment element out of the manufacturing equation to improved quality control).

The whining is common when you install a new pinion gear with an old main drive gear. Even somewhat when both are new. The pinion gear is steel and the main drive gear is aluminum. Until these two "seat" together (the aluminum gear meshes with the steel gear), noise occurs. It's tough to ever get a new pinion and old drive gear to ever seat together, because the old drive gear has already been seated with another gear. Differences in gear milling, wobble, adjustable nut threshold, wear, etc all can add up to create enough difference from gear to gear to create noise. You never know how much noise you are going to have until you try. Sometimes you get lucky and they are quiet. The best way to prevent this is to always keep the two mated (if they've had enough use to seat together), or, replace both with new. Even with both new they can take awhile for the noise to smooth out. This is why I always rebuild my pinion gears on used ULs if I plan on keeping the main drive gear in the reel. You can replace bearings and cups on pre-1975 pinion gear assemblies (do this over a large deep dish pan). I've even purchased NOS pinion assemblies (81303) and used everything but the shaft. As long as you keep the geared pinion shaft original, you shouldn't have noise problems. I only use Quantum Hot Sauce on my pinion assemblies. Never gums up and is very smooth. Doing all this doesn't guarantee no noise (whining) as there are a number of factors that can contribute, much in just how it's all reassembled, but this is how I approach pinion/main drive gear noise, to much success.

Below is the UL dating chart, graciously provided by Christian Lhermitte, world renowned Mitchell collector and fellow Mitchell Mate. When viewing the chart, remember that despite the model, all Mitchell UL reels were serial numbered sequentially. Note: In 1975 (approx) the Julian calendar serial number system begin.

BTW, there is a great dating chart on this site at the top of the page "Dating" for the 300 and other models, just not ULs.

Let us know if you have more questions. Glad to help a mate.

Sandman


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:46 pm • #  
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Thanks Sandman,
Think I'll put some heaver grease on it and take it fishing a couple days and see if it quiets down, thanks again Ed


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:00 pm • #  
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Dear Mates,
I have just acquired a 308 Prince which has serial no. 278900 (could be 278000), so from the UL dating chart would be 1963-4. It ticks when wound, even with the anti-reverse off. At first, I thought it was the A/R mechanism, but have found that the pinion bearings are making the noise. Careful disassembly, repacking with grease and reassembly has not cured the problem. Has anyone tried replacing the ball bearings? As the original pinion gear (part # 50/ 81303) is not available and the replacement 82424 is rare, would I have to replace the main drive gear with the later 5:1 ratio 84329 and the pinion 84331?
WYEcotswold
Tight Lines.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:56 pm • #  
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The pinion gear for this model is not rare...they are available on ebay right now for under $20...though I'm suspect that is where the clicking noise is coming from...if you put back all 17 ball bearings in each bearing well, packed with grease and got the spacers back on correctly (thin above head, thick below head) it is not likely this is where the noise is coming from...even if the bearings had some degradation...as most due of this age...the noise could be coming from other sources...bail trip lever not disengaging all the way, main drive gear damage, spool rubbing against head, etc...there is typical noise from the pinion and main drive gears meshing, but a clicking noise does not describe that is where it is coming from...

Replacing with 408 gears (5:1) is always an upgrade...the helical design is faster and smoother...you have to do both pinion and main drive...

Here's a whole 308 set for under $20...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/FIXIT-GARCIA-M ... SwX~9c7njT

Sandman


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:18 am • #  
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Sandman,
I read your reply and took your advice to check the reel over again. It was the trip lever touching the stop on the reel body. This is because the rotor head is from a later model. It has a double silver band and, tellingly, a dumbbell shape roller bearing on the bail arm, so from a 1978 or later 308 according to the schematics.
So I will either modify the existing lever or look for an older one. The original part was # 68 on the 49-68 schematics and looking at the later schematics the only part number shown is 81296, even though they are 2 obviously different parts - the earlier one is 2-piece with a pivot and the later one-piece (as I'm sure you know). By the way, the lock washers on the pinion gear were the wrong way round as well, not that it affected the noise.
Strangely, the anti-reverse on this reel is silent when engaged, unlike my other 308 of similar vintage. The main gear on both reels is the same and they both have a thrust washer and the same A/R mechanism. Never mind, thanks to you I have learnt something about these lovely little reels. You have my sincere thanks for that and also for saving me time and money!
May your lines always be tight. WYE24cotswold


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:18 pm • #  
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WYE24cotswold, glad you got the noise isolated to the trip lever. The trip levers are supposed to be interchangeable to early reels...but tolerances are so low that you could be correct in that a new version trip lever may hit the stop when it rotates...you may need the old style bail arm...Or, there may be just enough difference in the new style bail vs old bail that the trip lever won't disengage all the way without hitting an old style stop (body)...in which case swapping with an old trip lever won't help...modifying the existing lever is obviously the low cost option if successful...

Typically, the reason A/R mechanisms are quiet is either because the spring is not in it's original form, or too much grease...start by cleaning all the grease off the A/R dog and the A/R gear teeth on the main drive gear and see if it gets louder...also, if the A/R dog point is very worn or broke they will be quieter...

Sandman


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:47 pm • #  
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Sandman,
bought a spare one-piece trip lever (81296) for the 308. It still fouled the stop, so I carefully filed down the old one and now it runs fine.
I also cleaned the A/R mechanism and main gear of excess grease as you suggested and that now ticks like a watch. Looking forward to actually fishing with the reel now.
Thanks again. WYE24cotswold.


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