New to Forum and have question about a reel

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Oldfisher
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2023 5:12 pm

New to Forum and have question about a reel

Post by Oldfisher »

Hello,
I am new to the site and recently came into two Mitchell reels. One is a Garcia Mitchell 410 which I just cleaned and greased and it works great. I'm looking forward to getting a rod and use it for fishing.
The second reel is a Mitchell half bail and I must say I never saw a reel with a bail like this. At first I thought it was broke and could not imagine how it would cast. But the more I looked around at this site I see it was a predecessor to the full bail! I can't wait to try it out. This reel's spool was not moving in and out so I disassembled and found a gear missing. Please see the pictures below.
IMG_2508 (002).jpg
IMG_2508 (002).jpg (670.2 KiB) Viewed 6304 times
IMG_2511.jpg
IMG_2511.jpg (625.24 KiB) Viewed 6304 times
Is there a way to identify the reel to help locate a replacement gear. There are no marking on the case. On the foot there might something. There is a rough spot near one end of the foot bottom but I cannot identify the marking.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.


Bonanza
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:55 pm

Re: New to Forum and have question about a reel

Post by Bonanza »

Hello,

I believe you have a 3rd version 1/2 bail. If you look on the backside of your reel the should be a raised lettering for Made in France, look closely for an engraved serial number. There should be a letter in front of it. I have some 1/2 bail parts reels. If you would like me to service it and replace the missing parts I can do that for you.
Let me know and we can work something out👍 Nice reel


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Oldfisher
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Re: New to Forum and have question about a reel

Post by Oldfisher »

I checked and there are no marking on the back side, see below. Where bouts you located?
Attachments
Mitchell Pic4.jpg
Mitchell Pic4.jpg (92.85 KiB) Viewed 6214 times


Bonanza
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:55 pm

Re: New to Forum and have question about a reel

Post by Bonanza »

Ok that is good to hear! Now let’s establish if there are any markings/numbers on the inside of the foot. Look like you have a early 3rd version reel 👍😎


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GreatLaker
Posts: 232
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2021 1:05 am

Re: New to Forum and have question about a reel

Post by GreatLaker »

Oldfisher,
Welcome to the Mitchell Reel Museum (MRM). :text-welcomeconfetti:

I agree with Bonanza, your reel appears to be a 3rd version Mitchell. Later on, Mitchell gave this reel a model number of 300, but your reel is an early model. Wipe away some of the grease from the pinion gear and post a photo, this will tell us how early your reel may be.

These reels are not rare and not worth a lot of money but we still love them here. :banana-angel:

When the Mitchell (300) reels first started they did not have serial numbers on them. As time went on, during the 3rd version series, they began to get serial numbers. First serial numbers (S/N) were placed on the bottom of the reel foot. Then they moved the S/N's to the top rear face of the housing.

How about that grease!! LOL :shock: This could very well be the original grease that came on the reel. I suggest you remove every bit of it if you are planning on fishing with the reel, and not just keeping it on the mantle piece for show. I suggest a thorough cleaning and lubrication. Give us a shout if you need help.

The gear you are missing is called the transfer gear. You can get a transfer gear from the big auction site. Now the transfer gear #31, for 1/2 bail reels, is a level wind gear. Mitchell switched to cross wind gears when the full bail reels came out. (See Schematic Below)
1953 Mitchell 300 Schematic page-edited.jpg
1953 Mitchell 300 Schematic page-edited.jpg (197.1 KiB) Viewed 6195 times
If you look at the lower schematic image and you will see #31. Look on the parts list, to the left, to find # 31 Transfer gear(underlined in red). You may also notice that there is a: #31CW Transfer Gear-cross wind action, this is not what you want. You want the level wind: Transfer gear #31.

When shopping for a transfer gear #31 for a 1/2 bail reel, I recommend you try and get a #25 Driving gear along with it (Not 25L, 25CW, or 25LCW), especially if you are planning on fishing with the reel. Sellers on the big auction site sell them together all the time and because they are used, the price can be reasonable, but watch out for over priced parts or claims that the gears are new which are quite rare and very expensive. Also watch out for Cross Wind Gears (CW), your reel should have Level Wind Gears.

Note the anti-reverse dog lying in the grease inside the housing to the rear in your first photo-right hand image. This needs to go on the smallest pin on the cover plate-minus that grease!

As you remove the Pinion gear from the cover plate look for one or two tiny shims on the pin, between the pinion gear and the housing. They can hide very well in that grease so keep a sharp look out. There may be a shim on the underside of the drive gear so check when you remove that. Then as you remove the rotating head there may be a shim between the pinion gear pressed into the rotating head and the reel housing on the housing axle. See schematic for hints as to what goes where.

If you will be fishing in fresh water you can follow regular lubrication methods, but if you are going to fish in salt water, then I recommend extra protection. Let us know where you plan to fish.
Kind Regards,
Bill :D


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jtwill98
Posts: 58
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2022 2:05 am

Re: New to Forum and have question about a reel

Post by jtwill98 »

A member of another reel site (alantani.com) that goes by foakes, Fred is his name, has the transfer gear and other parts for the Mitchell half bail reel. You can either join the site and contact him through the Mitchell section or send me a private message and I can get you his information.


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Oldfisher
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Re: New to Forum and have question about a reel

Post by Oldfisher »

Wow! Thank you all for your kind help! I had no idea there was such a dedicated and helpful following.
I came across these two reels mixed in with a box of "stuff" I bought in a garage sale last year. In the 50's (that's 1950's) I fished ponds and "lakes" on LI. My friends and I would jump on our bikes with a knapsack, some night crawlers we caught the night before with dry mustard and water, and a sandwich made by mom and headed to one of the "lakes" or ponds for a day of fishing. We caught mostly catfish and shiners.
I always wanted the coveted Mitchell 300 reel but the Newsday paper route said otherwise :D . Later on I was able buy a Mitchell 304.
Of course now the reels are all made overseas and I fish with middle of the road Shimano's, both salt and fresh. I had many different boats but the last few years I started fishing more fresh water with the grand kids in Northwest, NJ and began kayak fishing. I like the ability to easily get onto the water with minimum fuss.
I can't wait to get downstairs and begin cleaning the half bail reel now that I have some good information and diagrams.

Thanks again for all your all your help and I'll post pictures along the way!


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Oldfisher
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Re: New to Forum and have question about a reel

Post by Oldfisher »

I did an initial cleaning of the heavy grease and may clean some of the parts in an ultrasonic cleaner bath before final assembly. I was very careful to look for shims and washers. The 51 and 54 washers were missing and there was a washer under the nut on plate under the spool which is not shown in the diagram. Also there was a serial number in the inside of the cast housing below. I attached a few more photo's below.
I was wondering if anything changes as far as part numbers finding this serial number.
Thanks
Attachments
Serial no. inside case.jpg
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IMG_2522.jpg (553.4 KiB) Viewed 5916 times
IMG_2516 (002).jpg
IMG_2516 (002).jpg (492.51 KiB) Viewed 5916 times
IMG_2517 (002).jpg
IMG_2517 (002).jpg (534.25 KiB) Viewed 5916 times


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jtwill98
Posts: 58
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Re: New to Forum and have question about a reel

Post by jtwill98 »

4189 is not a serial number. I don't know this for sure, however I think it's an ID number for the Aluvac alloy material.

Two items are missing from your last photo, the anti reverse dog with spring and the transfer gear.

The anti-reverse dog was seen in one of your earlier photos near the bottom of the main housing. The AR dog sorta looks like a boomerang with a spring on it. It was not clear if the spring was intact in the previous photo.

If you can't find the missing items on the auction site or just want to avoid buying there, private message me for Fred's contact information.


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Oldfisher
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Re: New to Forum and have question about a reel

Post by Oldfisher »

I attached a photo of the anti reverse dog in my parts dish. There was also a couple of fine metal slithers, almost like coarse steel wool in the case. Not sure what that is all about except, it is obvious the case was opened before hence the missing gear and shims. I'll check out the auction and get back to you on Fred's contact info.
Thanks
Attachments
IMG_2521.jpg
IMG_2521.jpg (554.87 KiB) Viewed 5908 times


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GreatLaker
Posts: 232
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Re: New to Forum and have question about a reel

Post by GreatLaker »

Oldfisher,
Good job so far but keep going.

Ultrasonic cleaners that will remove grease are great.

Shims and washers can have a very similar appearance. For the Mitchell 300 think of shims as spacers and washers as washers, LOL. In the case of the Mitchell 300 they are all shims but for one exception. The only washer on your reel is the #48 Baffle Plate Washer. The purpose of the Baffle Plate Washer is to support and keep the Baffle Plate level.

Shims are used on the Mitchell 300 to adjust tolerances. Most of the shims come in three thicknesses so you can tweak the gear train to perform at peak efficiency. The reason I suggested you carefully look for shims during disassembly, is because, hopefully, your reel was adjusted at the factory. Now, if you can put the shims back as to where they were originally, you will be ready to go. Unfortunately, this does not always happen and someone frequently, has gotten in there and not replaced the shims where they were when the reel left the factory. :cry:

I can't stress enough that removing all traces of old grease now is quite important. Fresh grease can be contaminated by old grease and oil, causing it to lose some of it's properties. If you remove all of the old grease and start with fresh grease and oil, then cleaning and re-greasing will be much easier at the end of the fishing season. If you use the exact same grease and oil after the season ends year after year, the problem of contamination is greatly reduced and you know what was put in there last spring. If you want to switch to a different grease then I recommend removing all of the old grease and oil before using the new brand.

In your fourth photo from the top, I can see shim #49 (between rotor and housing) on the housing axle right up against the housing. The schematic I posted is quite old but I chose it because it shows the parts for the early 1/2 bail reels. Later schematics differentiate between the two #49 shims shown in this schematic. The names changed to "#49A-Shims to adjust rotating head and housing" and "49B-Shims to adjust rotating head and baffle plate". So in this case I am speaking about 49A-Shims to adjust rotating head and housing. The reason I am calling attention to this particular shim is to make sure you noticed it. Also, you should remove it, clean it, and thoroughly clean the axle and the flared portion of the housing around it. Usually takes 2-3 Q-tips to get all of the old grease and grime out.

The number and need for shims varied from reel to reel. Your reel may not need a given shim or it may need several depending on the tolerance stack. You will always need the baffle plate washer so don't lose it as they changed over time and it's getting harder to find them.

The numbers you see inside the housing are not serial numbers. These numbers and marks are foundry marks and are molded into each piece that is cast. Foundry marks vary and many different one's have been found over the years on Mitchell 300 cast metal parts.
Kind Regards,
Bill :D


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GreatLaker
Posts: 232
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2021 1:05 am

Re: New to Forum and have question about a reel

Post by GreatLaker »

Oldfisher wrote: Sun Dec 24, 2023 5:19 pm I attached a photo of the anti reverse dog in my parts dish. There was also a couple of fine metal slithers, almost like coarse steel wool in the case. Not sure what that is all about except, it is obvious the case was opened before hence the missing gear and shims. I'll check out the auction and get back to you on Fred's contact info.
Thanks
Oldfisher,
LOL, the "slithers" you mention are what is commonly called swarf. Swarf are fine metal particles that are created during machining. In this case when the holes in the housing were drilled the swarf was a by product of the drilled out screw hole. Taping holes also creates swarf in metal. The appearance of swarf is a quality control issue in manufacturing. The guy who was supposed to blow out all the swarf missed your reel for some reason and it went down the line undetected. A big no-no on the manufacturing line.
Kind Regards,
Bill :D


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Rockape
Posts: 73
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:45 pm

Re: New to Forum and have question about a reel

Post by Rockape »

GreatLaker wrote: Sun Dec 24, 2023 5:44 pm Oldfisher,
Good job so far but keep going.

Ultrasonic cleaners that will remove grease are great.

Shims and washers can have a very similar appearance. For the Mitchell 300 think of shims as spacers and washers as washers, LOL. In the case of the Mitchell 300 they are all shims but for one exception. The only washer on your reel is the #48 Baffle Plate Washer. The purpose of the Baffle Plate Washer is to support and keep the Baffle Plate level.

Shims are used on the Mitchell 300 to adjust tolerances. Most of the shims come in three thicknesses so you can tweak the gear train to perform at peak efficiency. The reason I suggested you carefully look for shims during disassembly, is because, hopefully, your reel was adjusted at the factory. Now, if you can put the shims back as to where they were originally, you will be ready to go. Unfortunately, this does not always happen and someone frequently, has gotten in there and not replaced the shims where they were when the reel left the factory. :cry:

I can't stress enough that removing all traces of old grease now is quite important. Fresh grease can be contaminated by old grease and oil, causing it to lose some of it's properties. If you remove all of the old grease and start with fresh grease and oil, then cleaning and re-greasing will be much easier at the end of the fishing season. If you use the exact same grease and oil after the season ends year after year, the problem of contamination is greatly reduced and you know what was put in there last spring. If you want to switch to a different grease then I recommend removing all of the old grease and oil before using the new brand.

In your fourth photo from the top, I can see shim #49 (between rotor and housing) on the housing axle right up against the housing. The schematic I posted is quite old but I chose it because it shows the parts for the early 1/2 bail reels. Later schematics differentiate between the two #49 shims shown in this schematic. The names changed to "#49A-Shims to adjust rotating head and housing" and "49B-Shims to adjust rotating head and baffle plate". So in this case I am speaking about 49A-Shims to adjust rotating head and housing. The reason I am calling attention to this particular shim is to make sure you noticed it. Also, you should remove it, clean it, and thoroughly clean the axle and the flared portion of the housing around it. Usually takes 2-3 Q-tips to get all of the old grease and grime out.

The number and need for shims varied from reel to reel. Your reel may not need a given shim or it may need several depending on the tolerance stack. You will always need the baffle plate washer so don't lose it as they changed over time and it's getting harder to find them.

The numbers you see inside the housing are not serial numbers. These numbers and marks are foundry marks and are molded into each piece that is cast. Foundry marks vary and many different one's have been found over the years on Mitchell 300 cast metal parts.
Kind Regards,
Bill :D
My own method is to soak then stiff brush all grease covered surfaces with WD40, which works really well (I clean out every gear tooth and any other grease traps, then the same again in isopropyl alcohol, to remove all traces of WD40.


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Oldfisher
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2023 5:12 pm

Re: New to Forum and have question about a reel

Post by Oldfisher »

Do you think soaking in kerosene and brushing would be good for a thorough cleaning instead of the WD40. I have diesel fuel. What would be a good all around grease to use in the reel? I've seen people use the Penn reel grease. Also, is there an auction site for parts for these reels? I plan to contact Fred as well.
Thanks, John


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jtwill98
Posts: 58
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2022 2:05 am

Re: New to Forum and have question about a reel

Post by jtwill98 »

Soaking in kerosene would work. It's old school and most folks don't like the smell, but I still use kerosene myself to clean grease from parts.

Good luck with the project reel and best wishes for the upcoming New Year.


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jtwill98
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Re: New to Forum and have question about a reel

Post by jtwill98 »

Regarding grease, any good light weight grease will work, just apply it lightly to the gear teeth and gear faces.

I use a gun grease because I have it on hand. My father used Vaseline, not my favorite but it works. No need to pack it like some have done to reels I've seen while servicing them.


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Oldfisher
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Re: New to Forum and have question about a reel

Post by Oldfisher »

That's me - Old School :D I use the Kerosene out in the shed and with old clothes and rubber because it does stink, but usually cleans well. I bought some reel grease on Amazon, it's clear and thinner than Vaseline. I sent you a PM for Fred's contact info for parts.


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