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 Post subject: 808 Conversion Kit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 3:02 am • #  
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Hi all, new member here, but a long-time 'lurker'.
I'd like to find an 808 half bail conversion kit to add to my collection. I imagine they are quite rare and are a Garcia US product only ( I'm in the UK).


I don't expect to find one any day soon, but it seemed daft not to mention it here.......don't all rush to sell me one now :sSig_lol:


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 Post subject: Re: 808 Conversion Kit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:32 pm • #  
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Hi bailarm,

You had my heart pumping there for a few minutes. I thought somebody actually had one for sale. I have only seen one for sale in several years of collecting and got outbid in the last seconds. It sold for well over $200.00 but it was all original in the box (NOS). You just don't see them. We all keep looking - that's what makes this hobby fun.

Regards,
Chris


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 Post subject: Re: 808 Conversion Kit
PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:28 am • #  
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Thank-you Chris...and sorry for the cardiac incident. :sEm_oops:

As I suspected then, rare as hen's teeth.


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 Post subject: Re: 808 Conversion Kit
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 12:28 pm • #  
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Hello bailarm,

No worries on the cardiac event...happens to me all the time when discussing rare Mitchells :sFun_rofl:

Here is some of the 808 Conversion advertising. The first is from the 1954 Garcia Spinning Tackle catalog.
Attachment:
1954 808 Conversion Ad.jpg


And below is from the 1955 The Spin Fisherman Garcia catalog.
Attachment:
1955 808 Conversion Ad.jpg


As I earlier stated, I have only seen one and it was NIB. The box is a simple brown cardboard with "808" on the cover. I wish I had saved the photos of it but it was early in my collecting and I really didn't know the significance of it. It still haunts my dreams - I know it's out there somewhere :sHa_yes:

Best Regards,
Chris


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 Post subject: Re: 808 Conversion Kit
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 8:32 am • #  
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Thanks for all that Chris, we never see the Garcia literature like that over here so that was all new to me.

Might this be the image you recalled:
Attachment:
Conversion Kit _808 1955 RZ (Small).jpg


interestingly this image has a different baffle to the one in the Garcia book....


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 Post subject: Re: 808 Conversion Kit
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 6:44 pm • #  
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Hello bailarm,

That is exactly it. Very mundane packaging for GM but I think most of them were dealer upgrades when the owner brought the reel to the shop. Or as stated in the 1954 advertisement, you could send them back to a Mitchell Service Center where they would change it out for you as well. A very nice piece and very rare as I don't think many were sold to the general public for a "home conversion" and then it's likely then the box and instructions went in the trash. Thank you for the photo :sHa_okay:

Regards,
Chris


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 Post subject: Re: 808 Conversion Kit
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:18 am • #  
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Sorry for the double image....I can't seem to edit it out.
I don't recall where I got the image from now...it's me age...it may have been Mike DiMattio's book about boxes and packaging.

I have to agree with you, surely intended for the dealers workshop parts room rather than the shop display, it's amazing that that one is still in its box.


I doubt I'll ever see another, but my fingers are crossed.

It would be nice to date it since it has a later baffle than the Garcia images. Fourth Avenue address so post 1953.

Has anyone been able to determine exactly when Garcia moved to that address?


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 Post subject: Re: 808 Conversion Kit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 4:42 pm • #  
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Hello bailarm,

I believe the Garcia move from 53 Park Place, NY to 268 Fourth Ave., NY was late 1953 to early 1954 based on these two copies of "The Spin Fisherman" .
Volume 2 Number 1 from 1953:
Attachment:
Spin Fisherman Vol 2 No 1.jpg

Note the Park Place Address.


And Volume 2 Number 2 from 1954:
Attachment:
Spin Fisherman Vol 2 No 2.jpg

Note the Fourth Ave. Address.

Hope this helps.

Best Regards,
Chris


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 Post subject: Re: 808 Conversion Kit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 5:01 pm • #  
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Hello Again bailarm,

This thread got me thinking. I'm pretty sure that the "Artist Rendition" from the 1955 advertising is just that - the person's semi accurate drawing, vice a drawing of the the actual 808 Conversion Kit. I can provide numerous examples from the early Garcia documentation where the advertising did not match the actual product. The "2 Screw" Mitchell Salt Water reel is the first to come to mind from the 1953 Garcia Tackle Catalog. Obviously the United States advertising laws were much looser in the early 1950s than they are today :blush .

Best Regards,
Chris


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 Post subject: Re: 808 Conversion Kit
PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:02 am • #  
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Yes, it's the same here in the UK...the importers Milbro ( trade name for the Millard Brothers) often used artists impressions and a peculiar sort of 'semi-photograph' that didn't always reflect what was on offer.

The reason that 808 kit baffle caught my eye is that it was a correct image of a early half bail baffle..just a plain baffle plate with a steel peg to trip the arm.

It seemed a bit unlikely that the artist would substitute an image of the real thing for an imaginary one that just happened to be right for an earlier version....who knows?

The only answer is for everyone who has an 808 kit to send it to me so that I can compare them all....... :sFun_rofl:


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 Post subject: Re: 808 Conversion Kit
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2016 12:50 pm • #  
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Hello bailarm,

Well, I haven't yet been able to locate the complete 808 Conversion Kit but I did manage to find the original instructions to the 808 Conversion :clap .

Attachment:
808 Instructions.jpg


A nice piece to add to the collection - perhaps have it framed for a wall display. I only happened across this, so hopefully the entire 808 kit is close. The seller didn't have the kit which went with the instructions though :sSa_sadeyes: . The hunt continues.

Best Regards,
Chris


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 Post subject: Re: 808 Conversion Kit
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:47 am • #  
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Another nice find Chris...thank-you :clap

I wonder what they mean by the handle 'hub' being longer? Do they perhaps mean the shaft is longer, giving a longer throw...??

Or do they mean the handle is moved outwards by the part that goes into the main gear? That might indeed be called a hub.

I've not ever noticed a change in handle until the screw-locking locking counterweight in 1967....I shall have to check every reel aaaaarrrggghhhhhh!

They really are addressing issues that might have occurred with the very earliest half bails, aren't they?...those spool backs are to replace only the very earliest flat ones that could buckle under strain.
I don't think such attention to customer satisfaction was done elsewhere, it seems to be unique to Garcia, certainly Milbro in the UK offered no such 'upgrade'.

It's why I'm so interested in these kits, they are far more than just a 'conversion kit'....they are designed to bring fully up to date, any half bail ever made....I don't think the word 'upgrade' was in use then, as it is now...but it's surely what they were. Bravo Garcia Corp!



Going back to the magazine front covers, I notice the Volume 2 Number 2 is a 'Fall edition'...yet it is the first to be published since the Volume 2 Number 1 from the year before, so it was only an occasional publication the.....not a periodical?

Is there an official body whom we might approach for the exact date of the move to Park Avenue, does anyone know?


Thanks again for all your efforts on this, Chris :sSig_thankyou:


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 Post subject: Re: 808 Conversion Kit
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 7:30 pm • #  
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Hi bailarm,

A thought provoking topic. I believe that the hub the 808 instructions refer to is the handle hub. See below.
Attachment:
Handle Hubs.jpg

The handle on the left is from a third version half bail Ser #B03205 and the hub length (from end of ball to the break for the threaded portion) is 0.560" The handle on the right is from a very early full bail Ser #C06249 and the hub length is 0.662" so slightly longer providing for a greater offset from the rotor and bail/bail trip.

"The Spin Fisherman" was published quarterly by Charles Garcia & Co and I think that Vol.1 Number 1 was published in the summer of 1953 (I don't have them all yet). Therefore, I think that Vol.2 Number 1 was actually the summer of 1954 but the 1953 Copyright was still applicable to this Volume and then expired prior to the Fall 1954 Vol.2 Number 2 being published. But then my theory goes to pieces because Vol.3 Number 1 which should be summer 1955 has a 1955 Copyright :sFun_bricks: . Clearly requires more research as does the actual move date from Park Place to Fourth Ave. NY. Still working those Mate :tup

Best Regards,
Chris


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 Post subject: Re: 808 Conversion Kit
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 7:33 pm • #  
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OOOPs, Got my left and right with respect to the reel handles displayed cross-threaded :sAng_banghead2:

Chris


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