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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 1:06 am • #  
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I am not sure if this has been posted here before. I found a patent number on my 306A reel and decided to look it up and if the images will post, here it is.

I read in the history section and found this entry:

"Garcia on behalf of Carpano & Pons and the owner, Charles Pons, filed for a US Patent on August 3, 1948. Because of this some mistakenly believe The Mitchell was “invented” on this date but this is simply not true. Anyone involved with Mitchell history knows the true stories about allied soldiers returning from the war in Europe in 1945 with The Mitchell spinning reel. It was during this time when Tom Lenk, a marketing genius, took control of selling these new products."

And if the above is true, then the patent filed by Garcia on behalf of Carpano and Sons must be a different patent because this patent was filed for on January 5, 1953 and granted on December 6, 1955. I will do some more digging and see if I can locate any other patents especially the one mentioned in the history section of this website.

Another interesting feature of this patent is that it appears this patent was filed from France, not from the USA by Garcia. There is a statement at the top of this patent that says: Claims priority, application France December 19, 1952 5 claims. (Cl.242-84.4).

So if I am reading this correctly, the original application for this patent began in France in 1952 and there is no mention of Garcia any where on the document. I am not sure if I have the full text though and maybe there is more I am missing? I am just not sure.

But at the bottom of this document it lists previous patents with different names that I have yet to look up. This patent is for reel improvements which raises other questions. Is Charles Pons patenting improvements on an earlier design by Maurice Jacquemin? Or did Charles Pons invent his own design? Or, did Charles Pons improve upon the designs of other reels of the time? Or, did Charles Pons simply patent the work of Maurice Jacquemin?

Here is another entry from the history section of this website:

"...In mid-1930 Charles Pons, now owner and CEO of Carpano & Pons employed Maurice Jacquemin, a top graduate from the French National Mechanics College in Paris, France.

During this same time, a fishing tackle company called La Canne à Pêche located in Angers, France started developing a reel they named after their own company called the C.A.P. They contracted Carpano & Pons for further development. Maurice had helped Mr. Pons with this reel but at the same time worked on another reel.

Maurice, now chief engineer, believed he could produce a reel that was not just a simple container to hold fishing line, but a precision tool that would cast at a greater distance with precision and be able to recover the fishing line without tangling. After years of research and development, the Mitchell moulinet spinning reel was born, a marked departure from the reels of its day in mechanics and appearance."

One thing that is clear to me is that the patent number on my 306A reel is no where near the design drawings shown in this patent. They are not the same reel. So are they trying to patent protect new designs under an old patent? Is this legal? Is this even possible? It is sort of like putting a camaro patent number on a cadillac. What is the connection that could protect future reels under an old patent I wonder???

So what exactly is Charles putting a patent on? Just this one reel shown drawn and described in this patent, or is he placing a patent on the idea of an overall reel design subject to future changes and improvements?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 5:25 pm • #  
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So far I have only been able to locate 2 U.S. patents for the inventor Charles Pons, though I was able to locate numerous European patents I will get into later.

Oddly enough the patent number on the rotating drum of my 306A reel is 2726052 and yet when I look at the drawings of the reel patented under that number there is virtually zero resemblance to my 306A, but when I look at the drawings for the other U.S. patent Charles filed, I find that my 306A reel closely resembles the drawings on patent #2990130. So if any patent number should be on my reel it should be the one that is not there!

I can only wonder why this is so??? In any case, here are the patent documents for Charles Pons 2nd U.S. patent 2990130 for the reel designs we are most familiar with.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 3:53 pm • #  
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Greetings Cagey,

The 1948 patent I talk about was for "The Mitchell" later called the Mitchell 300, the first in line of many to come. Below is a poor copy of this one I mentioned. You also asked:

Quote:
Is Charles Pons patenting improvements on an earlier design by Maurice Jacquemin? Or did Charles Pons invent his own design? Or, did Charles Pons improve upon the designs of other reels of the time? Or, did Charles Pons simply patent the work of Maurice Jacquemin?

The Mitchell (300) was invented by Maurice Jacquemin but just like today in most cases, the actual patent fell under his employer Establishment Carpano & Pons by and for the owner Charles Pons.

The first reel patent you show was known as The Cap which was refined, sold and distributed by Carpano & Pons but didn't come under the Carpano & Pons "Mitchell" brand until 1954. The other reel patent you show is for a completely different reel called the Mitchell 306. All three of these reels had their own patent.

I hope this helps to clarify this confusing topic... Regards, Wallace


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 3:06 pm • #  
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Hello Wallace!

Your response opens up another line of questioning. You said that U.S patent #2990130 is for the 306 reel.

What is strange to me is that on both of my reels, a 306 and a 306A, is only a reference to the older U.S. patent for the C.A.P. reel #2726052. It is molded into both rotating drums on the reel.

If the 2990130 U.S. patent is for the 306 reel, then I am wondering why this patent is not the one molded onto the reel drum?

The only thing I can even begin to guess would have something to do with the molding process. If they used a mold from an earlier reel patented with the 2726052 number, is it possible they simply did not make a new mold for the 306 drum with the new patent referenced on it? This would certainly have made it cheaper to manufacture to simply do it this way as opposed to having an all new mold or molds made with the new patent number included and the older one deleted.

It just seems kind of strange to me to go through the process of applying for a patent which in this case took nearly 3 years from date of application intiated in France on November 6, 1958 to the U.S. filing for a patent June 12, 1959 to actually receiving the patent June 27, 1961 and then not using the patent number in production, at least on the 306 reel it was intended for.

Now if they began production of the 306 in 1958 the same year they applied in France, this would mean they conceivably went through nearly 3 years of production of this reel before actually receiving the patent.

This might go some of the way to explaining why they would have used the older patent for a different reel on the drum of the 306 as well as trying to save some money in manufacturing process by simply not producing a new drum mold or molds in 1961 to reflect the new patent number, especially since it had already been in production for nearly three years with the other patent number on it.

In any case, I do find this a little strange to say the least. And I hardly think this was a case of some sort of oversight on their part or something they missed. I think it was intentional to do it this way as the quickest surest method of getting the 306 to market as soon as possible while waiting on the patent to finally come around- at which time they had the patent in hand, but with production already underway, why waste one penny to change it now?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 4:12 pm • #  
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Cagey wrote:
Your response opens up another line of questioning. You said that U.S patent #2990130 is for the 306 reel.


Sorry Cagey but I can't find where I said that, but I'm old and blind. Please explain.

Thanks,
Wallace

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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 6:21 pm • #  
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Hi Cagey & Wallace,

Thanks for your info/comments! I really like patent content. Links (above) to US patent images are dead. So, I looked the patents up for myself and post here for others who may have interest.

Warm regards,

John

US 2726052 full document here:
http://pdfpiw.uspto.gov/.piw?PageNum=0&docid=02726052&IDKey=10222317F375&HomeUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fpatft.uspto.gov%2Fnetacgi%2Fnph-Parser%3FSect1%3DPTO1%2526Sect2%3DHITOFF%2526d%3DPALL%2526p%3D1%2526u%3D%25252Fnetahtml%25252FPTO%25252Fsrchnum.htm%2526r%3D1%2526f%3DG%2526l%3D50%2526s1%3D2726052.PN.%2526OS%3DPN%2F2726052%2526RS%3DPN%2F2726052

US 2990130 full document here:
http://pdfpiw.uspto.gov/.piw?PageNum=0&docid=02990130&IDKey=A894E0F78EE0%0D%0A&HomeUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fpatft.uspto.gov%2Fnetacgi%2Fnph-Parser%3FSect1%3DPTO1%2526Sect2%3DHITOFF%2526d%3DPALL%2526p%3D1%2526u%3D%25252Fnetahtml%25252FPTO%25252Fsrchnum.htm%2526r%3D1%2526f%3DG%2526l%3D50%2526s1%3D2990130.PN.%2526OS%3DPN%2F2990130%2526RS%3DPN%2F2990130

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US2726052 drawing.jpg


Attachment:
US2990130 drawing 1.jpg


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US2990130 drawing 2.jpg


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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 7:24 pm • #  
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P.S. Link/images for Mitchell (300) reel British patent content is here:

http://www.mitchellreelmuseum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=5372&sid=1098e91533cab3314be15ede95be81fd


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