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 Post subject: Dating my Mitchell 308
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:31 pm • #  
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This an appeal for help at dating the production year for my Mitchell 308. I read with interest the article on Dating Mitchell Reels on this website. However, I still would like some experienced guidance, as the article mentions it is based on a 300 study.

The serial number for my 308 is 115206. Does this mean it was manufactured in 1953 since it a relatively low six digit number and falls in the 1953 grouping of numbers listed in the article?? It has no letter before the numbers. It doesn't look that old like from 1953, but I am unsure and no expert.

Any help and explanation for your answer would be very appreciated. Also, I did not see a way to search the forum. If there are threads here already that speak to my questions, do you know how I would find them?

Thanks.

Florida Phil


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:05 pm • #  
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Greetings Florida Phil.
:sSig_welcome4: to the Mitchell Reel Museum.
Liondor, one of our most respected mates, has put together a chart that I use, and I believe that your reel was produced in 1966. I haven't used this chart that often, so I'm hoping I read it correctly.
Regards,
Ted Lanham


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:31 pm • #  
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Thank you. That is helpful and makes since, because this reel looks to be no older than that. It is in used but very good condition IMO.

It appears that I cannot access the attachment on your post. Perhaps due to the fact that I am so new to the form and have not been approved yet for complete access? Either way I will try to look at it later.

Thank you again for your response.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:31 pm • #  
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Now I can see it. Thanks. Perfect.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:07 pm • #  
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Ted and Phil, Christian's chart is a wonderful dating (through 1974) and total annual UL production tool. You will notice that in the accumulated years column, 1960 ends with 84092 and in 1961 the same column shows 141322. Since SN115206 falls between those two numbers, this reel was produced in 1961 (about mid-year). This is true because all Mitchell ULs of this era have sequential serial numbers that correspond with Christian's accumulated years chart.

As a side note, and as far as we know, only 308 and 309 ULs were produced through 115206....though, there is thought that the 358 UL reels may have been produced or prototyped as early as 115206 or earlier, though I don't believe anyone has shown one on this site, or claimed to have one...would be cool to see one if they do...

Sandman


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:10 pm • #  
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Phil, would be great to see a photo of your reel, as this era 308 had some distinct features later 308s did not have...

Sandman


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:32 pm • #  
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Sandman,
I'm glad you made the correction. I think I may need to make some notes for myself to keep it straight. :sCh_taz:

Regards,
Ted Lanham


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:59 pm • #  
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Wow, this is interesting and helpful.
I will post some pics the first chance I get. What would be some of the unique features? I well want to get the right pics.

It seems in awfully good condition for 1961. Wow.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:38 pm • #  
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Phil, below are some of the characteristics unique to early and earlier second versions. Some more subtle and some more obvious than others, in no particular order:

1) Crank handle
2) Bail stop
3) Line guide screw
4) Main drive gear thrust washer
5) Axle spool seat material
6) Axle guide post shape
7) Dashes between 308 engraving
8) Bail trip lever
9) Rotating head cast lettering size (patent # and MIF)
10) Number of coils in bail spring
11) "5" cast in bottom of rotating head
12) Crank shaft sleeve material
13) Crank handle knob screw type
14) Spool drag tension spring
15) Spool base

I'm missing some other mates may fill in....to really analyze all this, it's best to take photos when completely disassembled.

Sandman


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:50 pm • #  
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Does anyone know the production numbers for the Mitchell 408S?
Kim :sCo_hmmthink:


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:57 pm • #  
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Hey Kim, I don't have any additional dating/quantity info on the 408S other than what is in the Models page of this site. 1985 - 198?, 2026 total produced...

Sandman


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:13 pm • #  
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Mates, I'm hoping this photo shows up well and some find it useful for dating. It is the same info as Christian's UL accumulated years matrix, displayed in a dating format. I evenly distributed annual production quantities by month, spread across each year, to give an idea of which month a serial number was produced. Of course, these monthly estimates are just that, estimates. Primarily, it just makes it easier at a glance to see what year a UL was produced.

Sandman


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:39 pm • #  
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That's is very interesting.

Based on those differences....

I recently disassembled this 308 I bought online.

Anyway, after taking it apart for general service I noticed I am missing three washers... I think. There is no Teflon base washer (81285) on the spindle but under the spool. There is no steel thrust washer (81276) under the drive gear, Finally there is no "D washer (81302?) between the pinon asembly and the rotator.

It looks like some parts changed, were dropped and were added over the years. I am confused if I am really missing any or some of these parts and should I try to add them. I am also confused about what schematic I should be using.

If you know the answers to these questions, I would appreciate your help. Explanations and history lessons are welcomed. I am trying to learn all I can on how this all fits together with Mitchells in general. I have a few other Mitchells and I know they are from different eras.

Thank you for your help.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:26 pm • #  
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Phil, there are many characteristic changes from version to version and even within different years of same version, so it is difficult to know them all. not sure anyone does, but the schematics on this site are of the most help.

The teflon washer around the spindle at the base of the spool did not exist in your era of reel. it came later.

The "D" spacer between the pinion gear and rotor did exist, so maybe someone removed it to help line lay. I don't know, but I would put one on and try it. It was the thicker of the two D spacers. The thinner one is between the rotor and the axle lock nut.

The thrust washer did not exist on your reel. You can verify this by looking for a milled out area of the housing around the main drive gear spindle which would be the exact same size and depth of the thrust washer. I think these washers came later than your reel.

Your getting there. Again, photos would help...

Sandman


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:40 pm • #  
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Phil, forgot to mention. Your reel did come with a fibre (not teflon) washer under the spool drag tension spring.

Sandman


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:47 pm • #  
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Phil, also forgot to answer your schematic question. The second schematic listed is the one you should be using for your reel. It is labeled 1961 in the lower left corner of the doc. It is the closest schematic know to your reel. If you notice, it doesn't show a thrust washer or teflon washer on the spool. There are some subtle drawing differences, but I believe the parts should match your reel exactly (don't hold me to that)....seems to always be exceptions to the rule in the Mitchell world....part of what makes it interesting...

Sandman


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:11 pm • #  
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Here are the pics. Please share what these reveal. Again, according to the SN, this real is from mid-1961, I believe.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:27 pm • #  
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Had to figure out how to load them. I had the resolution too high.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:30 pm • #  
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Pics of serial number and bail style.

Thanks for your comments.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:22 pm • #  
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Phil, first of all, very nice reel and find. I can see why you didn't think this reel was 56 years old. From the photos, it looks almost new. I love it when you find them like this. From the chrome to the paint, I would say never used, but two things make me think very gently used, but again, going just off photos.

1) The crank handle knob seems to be smooth. If unused, or even gently used, these plastic knobs are noticeably knurled from the factory (for grip). While it doesn't take years of use to smooth down the knurling, it does take some use, and can give an idea of how much use the reel has.

2) The spool does not seem original to the reel. The drag tension spring fibre washer was reddish during this era, not grey, and, the tension spring did not have the three small "dimpled" cut-outs around the edge of the spring. They were perfectly circular during this era.

All other characteristics I can see, are period correct. It may be that the crank handle (or just the knob since the actual crank handle shaft is correct) and spool were replaced or switched with another reel.

As previously noted, this reel did not come with a thrust washer or teflon washer at the spool base, but did come with a D ring spacer between the pinion gear and rotor.

Many other attributes confirm the rotor head, bail assembly, body and gears are period correct. These include; Bold font cast into bottom of rotor head, pan head line guide screw, no thrust washer, solid brass/copper main drive gear sleeve, hole in main drive gear shaft with oilite bushing in shaft (you can check for this, the bushing should be removed, cleaned and reloaded with fresh oil) and others.

Again, I may change some of my views if I had the reel in hand, but you did a great job of providing photos. Just only have so much resolution to work with.

All in all, very, very nice reel. Congratulations! I would be happy to have that reel in my collection.

Sandman


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