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Mitchell Reel Museum Discussion Group

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:23 pm • #  
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My good French friend described it as the Holy Grail of Mitchell collecting as he extracted his pound of flesh. For me that is certainly the case, as I never thought I would see a MIB first version Mitchell. There are a couple of small marks on the foot, but internally there is no sign of wear or use.

The box is very special. It is 1/2 inch longer than the later boxes and of different construction. I have only seen one other box of this size and that differs slightly from this one having gold edging to the base and different paper covering the tray.

The spool container is of the push-on type and both spools have the spacers as discovered by Dennis2149.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:28 pm • #  
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The reel is what I have come to expect. The first type of transfer gear without a spacer underneath. The first type of AR knob. The cover plate screws are plated brass with an unfriendly narrow slot.

The reel runs beautifully and it is astonishing how they got it so right at the first time of asking. Superbly assembled with obvious care,


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:11 pm • #  
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Hello Jeremy, Good of you to post the pictures of something many of us will never get to see. Regards John in Pa. U.S.A. :sCh_fisherman:


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:06 pm • #  
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Jerem
That's a gorgeous reel. Thanks for posting pictures.

Regards,
Ted Lanham


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:45 pm • #  
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Jeremy, thanks for showing and Congratulations! Arguably, the Holy Grail!

Really unbelievable condition for a first version. I don't think I've seen a nicer one. The chrome is amazing. Hope you have some flesh left...though it may be priceless in the Mitchell world...

I notice the paper box insert has a texture to the paper surface I've not seen....

Is there anything notable on other side of the transfer gear?

Does it have the fine knurling on the A/R knob?

Does it have a flat head line guide screw with no chamfer?

I't sure clean on the inside. Do you believe that is original grease?

Sandman


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:34 pm • #  
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Jeremy Fisher,
Very interesting photos thanks for posting them. I just love seeing photos of these reels.
Jeremy Fisher wrote:
The spool container is of the push-on type and both spools have the spacers as discovered by Dennis2149.

What type of spool spacers were discovered by Dennis2149?
Kind Regards,
Bill :tup


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:17 am • #  
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Dear John in Pa and Ted,

I'm glad you like the reel. I thought that seasoned collectors like you would appreciate how special she is.

Dear Sandman,

The box tray has a heavily textured paper surface, more so than the other first box I have. Also, it lacks the gold edging.

I attach a photo of the underside of the transfer gear. No spacer. Note the textured surface of the silver metal.

Yes, the AR knob and line guide screw are as you suggest.

Grease is definitely original. I enclose a photo showing how clean the inside is.

This is a later first as evidenced by Mitchell being cut through the paint whereas on the earlier reels it was engraved before painting; the cover plate screws with a narrow slot and not of steel; lube port screw with narrow slot.

The paintwork on these early reels varies so much, that I believe that the first reels with poor paint finish were not intended for sale, but were rushed out as demonstration reels to French tackle shops. The reel was, after all, revolutionary. By the time the first reels were sold paint was excellent and they were boxed.

Dear Bill,

Jacquemin got his sums wrong and the first spools were too short; hence the need for a spacer. See photo.

JF.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:47 pm • #  
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Jeremy, thank you for the info...the inside is exceptionally clean....like it has not been cranked much...

The crank handle knob is black...is it painted? I ask, because many you see are wood color...see photo...

I've not taken my early second version spool apart to look for a spacer...I will do that...

Sandman


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 9:27 pm • #  
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Hey Jeremy Fisher,

Kudos to you!

A collecting holy grail is pursued by few.  Achieved by even fewer.

Speaking as one who knows not too much of this early era (and as such somewhat reluctant to post), thank you for sharing (including your excellent photos).

Warm regards,

John


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:28 am • #  
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Dear Sandman,

The handle is not painted black. It is what I would call mahogany colour and is found on the majority of early reels. I attach a close-up of one.

I'm not sure what wood the lighter handles are. I'm guessing Maple. The handle you show is a mid-way colour.

I think it's quite likely that your reel has a spool with a spacer.

Dear John,

Many thanks and beautifully expressed.

Regards,

JF.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:48 pm • #  
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Thanks Jeremy,

Is it possible all crank grips were dark to begin with and lightened in color with use? Have you ever seen a well used wooden grip that was dark?

This is a really good thread on these reels, which I know you are aware of, but I refer to it because it shows another very little used reel with a dark wood grip (membedeep) and other more used reels with lighter wood grips. Membedeep states there is still lacquer on the grip. Is it possible that when the lacquer wears off the wood appears lighter? Though, I know Rosewood can very in color naturally.

Sandman

viewtopic.php?f=65&t=5362&p=19806&hilit=Rosewood&sid=4ea52df8eefc86df16bfab826a270ef9#p19806


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:50 am • #  
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Dear Sandman,

I have been through what I have here and it's interesting how one's memory can play tricks.

Firstly, these knobs are not lacquered. Lacquer would chip or flake off leaving exposed bare wood. They are what I would call hard polished.

30% of my knobs are the purple/mahogany colour. I don't think they are stained thus although the polishing process does darken the colour. I don't think these knobs would ever become light with use.

36% are what I would describe as brown (I think yours is also) and these most certainly can lighten with use as the attached photo shows. However, the lightening is not uniform and such a knob could never be confused with a genuine light knob.

33% are light coloured. See photo of a minty example.

As a rough rule of thumb, the early reels are more likely to be mahogany colour, mid-period brown and late reels light. This is approximate.

What I don't know is what is done to the bottom of the knob and the top recess where the screw head sits. It always appears to be a graphite like colour.

I attach a photo of 3 knobs - 2 original and one probably repro - you will notice the graphite- like finish on 2 of them and not the other.

Regards,

JF.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:21 pm • #  
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Thanks Jeremy, I see the dark (Graphite) ends you describe. My guess is this has darkened due to the machine oil used to lubricate the grip. The ends have been exposed to the oil more than the outside, which has also attracted dirt causing the darkness. The ends may even be more porous and absorbent of the oil due to grain direction.

Generally speaking, Rosewood is not commonly as dark as the dark examples shown here. Makes me think they were treated with something and whatever that was has rubbed off..though that doesn't explain a minty light one, unless that one was the one you were referring to as a repro.

Sandman


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:43 am • #  
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Dear Sandman

I had arrived at the same conclusion as you about oil discolouring the ends, but close examination suggests this isn't the case. The exact same discolouration is present on all knobs, even on minty reels where there is little if any oil.

I've actually rubbed some dirty old oil on what I think may be a repro knob and will monitor.

I am not knowledgeable about woods but I have never accepted the catch-all of Rosewood. I prefer to just call them hardwood knobs. A dealer in antique furniture could probably identify. No, the minty light one is original. The one in the middle of the shot of 3 is possibly a repro, but that has been on a reel for 20 years. My wife has a better eye than me and thinks the repro is original!!

My guess is that the dark knobs are some sort of Mahogany and the light knobs possibly Maple. The mid-coloured knobs like yours I think have stain on them. One of the dark knobs split completely in two due to the screw swelling with rust and I recall the wood being the same colour right through. It does naturally darken when polished.

Regards,

JF.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:19 pm • #  
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Dear Sandman,

I'm beginning to think you're right about the graphite colour.

I attach a photo of the possible repro. If it is, it's a good one.

I've seen 3 repro knobs in the past and they were obvious. Wrong number of cuts etc.

Regards,

JF.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:38 pm • #  
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Hi Jeremy, absolutely beautiful Version # 1 and Box. I know what you mean about the # of flesh. I've been there but not yet for a 1st version. Congratulation and thank you for sharing with us.

Greatlaker, on the early spools, upon close visual inspection of the lower inside section of the arbor, one can usually view, without any disassembly, the mentioned spool spacers--with fishing line removed of course.

Mates, Happy New Year with the best of Mitchell finds, Dennis2149


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:53 pm • #  
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Jeremy, I attach a photo of wood grip that arrived on a UL I purchased for parts. Not sure what kind of hardwood, and it's difficult recognize in the photo, but it too has the darkened ends from what we believe to be caused by oil and dirt. Seems like we've reached consensus there.

I viewed my first version spool (looks identical to the one Jeremy posted in this thread) and verified it does has the spacer as you suspected. And, as per Dennis, it was detectable without taking it apart.

Sandman


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:05 am • #  
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Dear Sandman,

Yes, I think we're agreed. I think the point you made about the nature of the grain being a factor is correct.

I rubbed some dirty old oil on the ends of the knob that concerned me and after 2 days it looks like the other knobs. It seems oil is easily absorbed due to the way the grain runs.

Many thanks and regards,

JF.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:11 pm • #  
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Congratulations JF that is some find!

And the intact box too..that's something I just never thought I would see.

Incidentally, I did strip four first versions a couple of years ago and they had steel side cover screws I believe I recall. I remember checking with a magnet.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:32 am • #  
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Dear Nobby,

I'm glad you like the combo. If you look back a little further in this section you will find what I believe is an even earlier box.

I used to believe that all 1st. and 2nd. versions and early 3rds. had steel screws, but I now know better. Granted most do, quite a few 1sts. and a few early 2nds. actually have plated brass. I also thought those were aluminium, based on something I read, until you put me wise. Authentic brass screws are easy to recognize because they have very thin slots.

I still have the 4 reels you studied. A lot of water has flowed under the Mitchell bridge since then !!

Kind regards,

JF.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:15 am • #  
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Ah......I thought you were the German collector who uses a Jeremy Fisher in all his images.

Apologies!

Hello RB.


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