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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 4:12 am • #  
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Hi Mates,  I would like to start some discussion around the rod selection people use for our mitchell reels.  Also defining all the rods made by Garcia.  OK to chime in here Wallace and others.  Any thoughts. 
Thanks Scott


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 6:22 am • #  
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Hi Scott,

Using a Conolon rod with a vintage Mitchell adds to the nostalgia and thrill of fishing with these old favorites. I have a gallery of NARMCO and Garcia Conolon rods you can see here: Home - Gallery - Vintage NARMCO Conolon Rod Advertisements. So far it only goes up to 1960 but someday it will be complete. I have all the ads, just short on time.

It will be interesting to see what others have to say Image

Best Regards, Wallace

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:30 am • #  
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Hey Wallace,  Thanks for the post.  Yes I have seen and used some of the rod specifications from the advertisements on the museam site.  I think that my rod database is close to being put out there for people to use and comment on.  I would like to post here if possibble.  Thanks Mate.  Scott


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:54 am • #  
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Hi Scott,

Knowing who you are and what you are doing, would it help your study if I scan more Conolon ads for you or do you already have them? We would be honored if you would post your article here when ready mate! Let me know if I can help in any way...

Did you figure out the star rating system yet? After speaking with you a few weeks ago, I'm more confused than normal.

Best Regards, Wallace

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 12:28 pm • #  
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Hey Wallace,

Yes I did figure out the star rating system based on the old garcia advertisements, but some of it just does not add up. I have 2 rods that are the same model # 2500-A, 5' UL, identical lb. test, lure wt. and action. serial #'s are same, yet 1 is a 4 star the other is not. Rods are NOS and have never seen daylight so it is not like the stars fell off label from wear. I have seen this numerous times throughout my database. Just kinda strange. I guess this is why we do this. Cheers Scott


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:57 pm • #  
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hi mates, after reading the discussion on the conolon dl series rod, i thought i would send 
sImageImageImageImageome photos of mine.  doug 


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:31 pm • #  
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Hey Doug, Great photo! I have the exact metal case with rod for my 2002-D 5 star. I could not see all the label info. could you send another picture or just send the specs. Regards, Scott


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:23 am • #  
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Hi Doug,

That is a fine looking reel mate! It's the first gold plated Garcia Conolon rod made for the Mitchell DL series reels. Can you say what the gold plating looks like, is it similar to the gold plating on the reels? I'd also like to know the details Scott has asked for...

Here's another Conolon "Custom" I though people would like to see:

ImageImageImage

This is a perfect rod for the Mitchell 302 and 402 series reels. Probably good for the larger saltwater reels but I've not tried it.

Regards, Wallace Carney

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:48 pm • #  
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Hello all,

To me it brings back a special feeling to use a Conolon rod and mitchell reel .
Just a few weeks ago I took a Conolon Albatros 131 F2 rod and 308 Benjamin and went fishing with it .
A quality combo from 1971 and a pleasure to use again .

I haven't seen any Euro Conolon rods here for the Mitchell DL reels , maybe they were made on special request only ?
I do like the Garcia ones !!

Regards  Dries


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:17 pm • #  
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hi scott and wallace.another photo of my dl rod.hope this helps.  dougImage




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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:38 pm • #  
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hi wallace,the gold plating on the rod does not look to be as good as on the reels.the
plating looks to be very thin especially on the line guides.  doug


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 5:11 pm • #  
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Hey Doug,

The rest of the rod data from the label is great thanks.  The most likely reason that the gold is thinner is the plating process.  Alot of those thin aluminum pieces just can't handle the plating current to deposit the gold. The current breaks down the aluminum and create pinholes.  The thick denser metal parts they can really crank up the current to get a really quality coating during the deposition.  Still a great rod.  Actually the case is a good find.  There are very few of them around.  Put the 2 of them together. SWEET!  

                                                   Regards, Scott


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 6:24 am • #  
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Hi Dries, I've never seen a Albatros Conolon rod but I knew Conolon blanks were sold worldwide. Can you post a picture of the Conolon Albatros rod sticker?

Hi Doug, The only one I've seen was the same as what you describe. Please bring this to our next meeting?

Hi Scott, I thought the images below will help with your study. The Conolon "Custom" rods appear to be made better than any 4-star series.

ImageImage

I also wonder if these "custom" rods were made for the freshwater fishing rods?!

Best Regards, Wallace

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:18 pm • #  
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Hey Wallace,

That is way cool to still have the tag that goes with the rod.  Absolutley the small pamplet will help.  Thanks!  All but 2 were already on my list.  Even though I have never seen a tag for a custom fresh water rod,  The DL identification probably qualifies.  I find only about 0.1% of the rods found are DL's.

                                                                                                          Cheers, Scott


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 6:56 pm • #  
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Hi guys:

I'm a bit confused with the "DL" designation you are using and also your reference to the "DL" being made for the DL reels.  To me "DL" stands for the Deluxe line of rods.  Are you refering to specifically the Custom line of rods, or a special line of rods that were called Custom Deluxe?  I have a 1963 Deluxe rod that has "gold colored" tunsten guides (model 2002T).  Is that a DL rod?  Are the ferrules, guides, butt cap, winding check, and reel seats gold colored or gold plated on this rod?  To me, the guides on my 2002T look like they might be gold plated (deeper gold color) and the rest look like they may be gold colored anodized aluminum.

The gold colored guides on Deluxe rods are only used through 1966, but the gold guides on the Custom line continue on through 1971.  Any clarifications would be much appreciated.

Best regards,

Wayne 


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:41 am • #  
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Hey Wayne,

I am starting to think that a book might be in the works here.  I have a database with about 250 + different models of spinning and bait casting rods listed that is mostly complete on the specifications.  Some of the rods are DL's, and some are custom marked.  I have gold plated DL's and customs.  And only 1 gold plated DL custom deluxe.  That rod I pulled the data off ebay about 6 years ago.  I believe that in the early years
Garcia model # system and rating system worked really well.  As the demand for more collector type orders at Garcia came in I think that stuff was just made and defined by what the customer asked for.  Thus we have DL custom gold plated rods.  I ask that if you have any rods that you have data on could you post so that I can fill in any gaps.  This list will be published with the help of Wallace to get it in the right place in the museum. 

                                   Regards,  Scott


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:50 am • #  
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Hi Wayne, Below is the only legitimate information I've ever found relating to the "gold" rod and reels. We call these rods "DL" for lack of a better term but they never had that term written on any of these rods to my knowledge. We use this term because "Deluxe" covers a wide variety of rods including those that were not gold plated. This ad was published by Garcia in 1970:

Image

It appears your rod is a very early model of these reels, can you post pictures? In the few I've seen, only the line guides were gold plated. All other parts appear to be anodized with a gold color metal as you say.

Hey Scott, When you have sufficient history, images and specifications of the Garcia Conolon rods, 1947 ~ 1982, I highly recommend you do a book or at least a website dedicated to Conolon rods. Let me know if I can help.

I look forward to adding your data base to the museum...

Best Regards, Wallace

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:37 pm • #  
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Very interesting thread. I never could find an ad that stated a certain DL pole was made exclusively for the DL series of reels. About 10 yuears ago I won an auction on ebay for a 300DL reel and pole. When they arrived the pole had gold all over it like the reel. I figured it was made for the reel. When I checked my catalogs it put the pole in the 1957-1963 range. Nothing in the catalog specifically stated it was made for the DL series of reels. I'll have to dig the pole out and do some more research to confirm that..........
      Kim


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:40 pm • #  
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Hi Steve and Wallace:

Thanks to both of you for helping shed some light on this subject for me.  Wallace, the ad is one that I have not seen and contains a rod I have not seen, but explains a lot!  I'm sure mine is just an earlier deluxe rod that is not that special.  It came with the gold colored carboard tube and black sock, and rod tag.  I'll post a couple of pictures next week since I am out of town for a few days. Thanks again,

Wayne


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:14 am • #  
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Hi Wayne & Kim,

I'm looking forward to seeing pictures of your gold Conolon rods.

Cheers, Wallace

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 3:47 pm • #  
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Hi Mates,

As I have been playing around with the rods in the basement, it ha sdawned on me that I need to look for a Vintage Garcia Rod Holder Store display. Anybody have ideas on where to find one, or has anybody crossed paths with one in the past.

Regards, Scott


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:26 am • #  
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Hi Scott,

I can't help locating one but I do have old pictures of a couple somewhere. I'll try to find them for you. I remember one was made similar to a Christmas tree by Garcia. Does anyone remember this?

Regards, Wallace

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I remember about 6 different styles.  1)  A salt water rack which only had the Gold background  and Garcia label in center of about a 3 ft. wide rack. The others all had Garcia Conolon labels, 2) ultra lights, 3) light action and 4) medium action.  They all used to have the main rod catalog hanging from it that helped match a reel with a rod.  5)The christmas tree one reminded me of some of the Berley rod hoder tree's  Usually some formica type wood with the garcia conolon label in the center.  I kind of remember the ultra light rack having the rod models on the rack. 6) was specfically for the Gold companion series rods.  I can still picture where they were in the store just across from the reel glass cases.  Pretty dam good memory!  What is my wifes name?  This is gonna hurt !  On another note I hope to come to Florida for the big event Jan. 2011.  A 50th B-day present for myself.

                                                                                                                               Regards,  Scott


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:56 pm • #  
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Scott, I look forward to your article on conolon rods, I've been looking at all the info I can find on them. Is there a pattern to the numbering system, or what D, or T, etc. stands for that follow?
Thanks, Steve


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Hey Steve,  

             From some help from the Mitchell Museam and Wallace extrodinaire, I have an understanding of the star system.  The stars represented upgrades to the rods, agate eyelets etc..  I have found no clear connection to what the different letters after the model # relate to yet.  It is my opinion that has to do with the time frame of when the rod was manufactured.   The reason that I believe this are because these below rods I own, the two 2500's were bought by me in 1972ish,  the 2500-A's  I purchased new in 1978-79.   Here is a slight taste of the data base.   As you can see only the differences in stars on a couple of the rods.  I hope that this helps somewhat.

                                                                      Cheers,  Scott

Model # Serial # Stars Type Length pieces Action Taper Line wt. Lure Wt. Rod Color Handle Reel Seat  Seat Color Comments
2500 spin 5' 2 ultra light 1 thru 6 1/16 thru 1/4 brown-crm cork slide rings brass
2500 spin 5' 2 ultra light 1 thru 6 1/16 thru 1/4 brown-crm cork slide rings brass
2500-A 5 spin 5' 2 ultra light 1 thru 6 1/16 thru 1/4 brown cork slide rings brass
2500-A 4 spin 5' 2 ultra light 1 thru 6 1/16 thru 1/4 brown cork slide rings maroon
2500-A 4 spin 5' 2 ultra light 1 thru 6 1/16 thru 1/4 brown  cork slide rings maroon
2500-A   spin 5' 2 ultra light 1 thru 6 1/16 thru 1/4 brown cork slide rings maroon
2500-B spin 5' 2 ultra light 1 thru 6 1/16 thru 1/4 tan/cream cork slide rings brass
2500-T spin 5' 2 ultra light 1 thru 6 1/16 thru 1/4 tan cork slide rings brass


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 4:10 pm • #  
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hi scott and wayne,i have the complete set of fishing annuals and a large number of the
tackle catalogs and i have not seen 1 advertisement for the conolon live fiber rods.as a
collector of the forked handled reels i have a number of the conolon live fiber rods
2459,2460 and B460 and a large number of other live fiber rods.i guess my question
is why not.as common a rod as it was you would think it should have more exposure.
have i missed some advertisements? your thoughts on the matter.  doug


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Hey Doug, 

            Ah the abyss continues.  I really hope someday to solve the riddle.  I have followed the Live fiber rods for quite a while.  My dilemma here is that I don't have a way to connect any specifications for things such as line wt., lure size, rod strength and action or taper. The conolon rods are a little easier to track.  From my earlier note on the conolon's.  I cannot figure out the letter ID after the model #.  I thought it could be tied to manufacture date.  I do not know whether that totally makes sense.  From the attached data from my earlier note the odd man out is the 2500-T.  It is obviously an earlier made rod but has a letter way down the alphabet. My second thought is that does the letters identify where they were manufactured.  Kinda like the US coin minting system. P (philadelphia) S (San Francisco) D (Denver).  Ah back to live fiber.  Is it possible that the liver fiber rods are part of Narmco just after the sale and before garcia got there conolon label on the rod?  Or could it be another series of custom blanks defining themselves differently to the star rating, or  DL series?  I have attached another set of data to think about.  These are some of the Rods for the forked reels under the conolon mark.  I look forward to your thoughts.  Scott

2581 spin 6' 6" 2 light fast 4 thru 8 1/4 thru 1/2 brown cork forked brass new design
2581-D 2 spin 6' 6" 2 light fast 4 thru 8 1/4 thru 1/2 brown cork forked brass new design
2582 spin 7' 2 light fast 4 thru 8 1/4 thru 1/2 brown cork forked brass new design
2582-D spin 7' 2 light fast 4 thru 8 1/4 thru 1/2 brown cork forked brass new design
2585 spin 5' 6" 2 light fast 2 thru 6 1/8 thru 1/2 brown cork forked brass new design


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 5:41 pm • #  
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For what it's worth, my current understanding is...

Early Conolon rod materials were just called “fiberglass”, then “Missilite” (a chemical bonding finish they had used instead of rivets on their old products such as bombs and guess what, missiles!) to seal the fiberglass rods, then quickly changed due to the negative implications to “Conolock” then to “Live Fiber” in the fifties. All of these “surnames” were no longer used when bought by Garcia.

If this is true, you won't find much information on Live Fiber in Garcia catalogs BUT; does anyone besides me remember seeing a forked Conolon rod with Live Fiber written on it? Please feel free to correct anything, I'm also just trying to figure this out.

Regards, Wallace

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 2:20 am • #  
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Hey Wallace,

You are worth alot!  I wish we could clone you.  I forgot about the missilite trademarks before live fiber.  After your note I did a heavy search of EBAY on the live fiber thread.  I thought I remember seeing a conolon forked rod with a live fiber designation.  If it does exist that would be a real find. The only 1 the label was clear on was this EBAY # 260612402210 If this existed here then we might find a forked conolon live fiber rod.    Clearly there was some overlap during manufacturing where the label dual labeled 

                                                                                                                  Regards,  Scott


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 3:59 am • #  
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hi scott,here is a list of garcia conolon rods i have for the forked handled reels.
2580 6ft lt action
2581 6ft 6 lt action
2582 7ft lt action
2583 7ft med action
2584 5ft ultra lt action
2585 5ft 6 lt action
the rods that have a label that are readable all have a d suffix.the following are the conolon
live fiber rods that i have.
2459 5ft 6 lt action
2460 6ft 6 lt action
B460 7ft lt action
i have never seen a narmco live fiber forked handle rod and my thoughts are narmco
was gone by the time the forked handle rods came out.  doug


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