Mitchell Reel Museum Discussion Group

Mates,
In 1998 I was fortunate, enough, to be able to attend the First Annual Creek Chub Company Reunion held in Garrett Indiana, the home of CCBC fishing lures. I was only one of many collectors that had traveled from all over the US to attend this gathering
I think that the city of Garrett had long overlooked the importance of this small lure maker that had produced many millions of lures in the decades, and had put this city on the map.
I spent a couple of days there taking pictures of the city, the empty lot where the factory had stood, and best of all, I was able to actually talk a bit with Harry Heinzerling, one of the few remaining officiers of the company. There were about 58 of the ex-employees that were available to ask questions about some of the oddities some of the lure collectors had run into during their searches, and I wasted no time getting answers to questions I’d had for years. There were a lot of disagreements permanently settled that week end by the people that actually made the lures.

Now for my Mitchell Reels. I wonder if anybody in Cluses has ever thought that something like the above might be a way to bring tourists to their fair city, and at the same time get a lot of information in circulation that only some ex-employees might know. Though it might not be a convenient trip for us in the US, I'm sure plenty of collectors in Europe would be interested.

Regards,
Ted Lanham

Dries,
I think they are, possibly, missing a reel opportunity.

Ted Lanham

Oscillator,
I have been thinking about sending the Cluses Historical Society and email, and suggesting the possibility of getting any available information about the Mitchell operation from either people that had
worked there, or their descendants.
Their society, mostly, deals with the watch making industry, but does have a display about the Mitchell works.

Regards,
Ted Lanham

I have had contacts with a former sales manager at Mitchell, but I have not had answers to the questions that everyone is asking
Best regards,
Christian

Dries,
We must be different here in the states. Most of the old guys, in my area, love to talk about their old jobs, and many take real pride in the products they were involved in making.
All it would take here to get information is to run an ad in the newspaper asking for information, and in fact, our local historical society would jump at anything like this.

Regards,
Ted Lanham

Hello Mates,

Another thing to consider may be archives of digitized documents [newspapers/magazines/books that have been scanned and had optical character recognition (OCR) done to enable keywords searching].

My efforts (at least) did not turn up anything useful on early Mitchell history with https://books.google.com/ . But, there are many other possibilities.

I just used http://nyshistoricnewspapers.org/ (which is free) to find an April, 1949 camera & sport shop’s ad in a local paper for the “(French) Mitchel Spinning Reel”.

Here’s a long shot a French mate may be interested in trying: Bibliothèque nationale de France (BnF) reading rooms provide access to Europresse database (quote from BnF below).


It looks like there may be a fee to buy a pass to a reading room. It also looks like one may be able to buy an online subscription to Europresse directly. Given a subscription may be expensive, it might be better to try a reading room first, if one is nearby. Also, Europresse may not go back far enough - so call the library first?

John

Only thing I can think of is that they don't want any American's visiting their fair city?

Mates,
Verrrrry Interesting.

Regards,
Ted Lanham

Mates,
I have trouble understanding all this, possible, secrecy about the production of fishing reels.( if they were produced during the war)
The world had no problems letting bygones be bygones when it came to buying VW autos after the war, and they used slave labor in their factories producing the war time version of their vehicles.
Toyota made bayonets in their factories during this time, and Kawasaki, Mitsubishi , Nippon Steel,etc. reportedly used American POW's as slave labor in their plants. All this was old news, by most people, after the war ended. I have owned several Toyota, VWs, and they were great cars. Very puzzling!

I've been trying to find the right words to express to send an email with some of these questions to the Cluese museum. I don't want to word it where it will be changed into something that will offend any possible reader at the museum. I have found that sometimes, messages are taken differently than intended when the communication is via either a email, or a post. Now, add the additional changes a translation service might do, and it might not be delivered as intended.

Hopefully, some time in the future, I get around to it.
Regards,
Ted Lanham

It would be very interesting to know exactly who or what "The Elders" are. If it is an official body, the membership make-up would change from time to time. The immediate post-war members would be long gone by now.
I agree with Ted : the world moved on quickly after WW2 and I don't believe there would have been a negative reaction had Carpano et Pons made fishing reels during the war. As the son of post-war refugee immigrants to the UK I know from personal experience just how understanding people can be. To suggest that the war-time production of fishing reels would cause a negative reaction today, 70 years later seems a stretch.
As Fishkat has shown us elsewhere, the Mitchell reel was, understandably, very well received and sold in large numbers to American personnel on US bases in France during the post-war years.
Respected collectors like Barrie Frewing, Luc de Medts, Jan Haanstra, Joy van Hengst and the Caminades have been diligent in their research; but I am not aware of any evidence of the war-time production of Mitchell reels being found. I know Jan has visited Cluses.
Even if we accept that a group of locals in Cluses might have wanted to supress knowledge of war-time production for fear of a negative reaction (who from?) it would surely be impossible to eradicate all evidence of 8 years of the production and sale of reels throughout France.
I am neither a historian nor a researcher. I just look at things from a practical standpoint.
Would Carpano et Pons deliberately falsify their literature and press releases, and celebrate fake anniversaries? I don't think so. That course of action would almost certainly be found out and guarantee a negative reaction. They consistently described the Mitchell as a post-war product.
If Carpano et Pons made and sold reels for 9 years before applying for Patents in 1948, why did none of their competitors copy or steal their design?
How are we to explain the fact that La Canne a Peche only deposited the design of their original reel on 14th. March 1939 (Caminade) and that, according to an interview given by the CAP. CEO, Carpano et Pons were only approached after difficulties in production were experienced due to WW2 ? Mitchell lore has it that working on the CAP led Carpano et Pons to design the Mitchell.
The material that Dan and John have shown us elsewhere confirms that Garcia did import MK2 reels. These reels would surely have been made after 1946.
The destruction, devastation, degradation and loss of life across Europe during WW2 is difficult to comprehend : it was truly horrifying. Is it likely that Carpano et Pons would have considered that the right time to enter into a new business venture making fishing reels? I doubt it.
I am quite prepared to be proved wrong on the question of whether Mitchell reels were produced before and during WW2, but this would require good, solid and incontrovertible evidence to be made available. To date, everything I have seen suggests that the reels were first produced in 1947 and probably first brought to market (outside France at least) around 1948.
I was a bit nervous about writing this post because I understand that Mitchell collectors have a habit of falling out over these things. However, I'm a newbie collector with no particular allegiancies and I see no reason why this question cannot be discussed, and hopefully resolved, in a calm and civilised manner.

Rolands.

Dear Wallace,
I am somewhat taken aback by your reply.
Just for the record, I have not called you a liar or suggested such a thing.
You are entitled to your opinion as, I hope, am I.

Regards,

Rolands.

Dear John,
I do not have a fixed position : I am completely open-minded on the subject.
However, all of the information I have seen suggests that the Mitchell reel appeared post-war. If there is hard evidence that the reel was produced both before and during the War, I would like to see it.
I have sent Wallace a PM.
I do not care one little bit for the events of the past 24 hours. I worded my original post extremely carefully bearing in mind what I am told has gone on in the past.
I am a seasoned collector in many other areas and I have never experienced anything like this before.
As you have acknowledged, I do know how to spell and I am careful about how I write and punctuate my posts. I also like to think that I am considerate of the feelings of others.

Kindest regards,

Rolands.

Hi Fishabout, I tend to agree that some of the Mates should take a deep breath and count to10. Not being into the history portion of my love of Mitchell reels I'm not about to get into a spirited debate or try to decipher whose opinions are right or wrong.All I can say is with so much early history cloaked in secerecy ,it seems we will never have definitive answers to a lot of our questions. We are all Mates and I hope it stays that way for along time. Tight lines all ,John in Pa.

...................................

Hi Ted, Florence speaks practically no English apparently, but if this helps::

Commune : Cluses

Appellation du service : Archives municipales de Cluses

Contact : Florence POIRIER

Adresse postale : Espace Carpano & Pons – 100, place du 11 novembre – 74300 CLUSES

e-mail : archives@cluses.com

Adresse topographique : voir adresse postale

Téléphone : 04 50 96 69 44

Télécopie : 04 50 96 46 99

bailarm,
Thanks for the information. I've had it for a while , but have been reluctant to act on it fearing that a auto-translation of my attempt would be taken differently than I'd intended it.
As we have see recently, messages can be taken different if not worded carefully. Especially, for me because I have been known to ,unintentionally, stick my foot in my mouth with badly worded messages.
I am still bouncing the task around in my head, but it's hard to get past the my uneasy gut feeling about asking for information that may be so sensitive to the people being asked.

Regards,
Ted Lanham